I waded into r/mensrights to defend the 15 year old male student molested by a female teacher...and what i got was this:
Posted Jun 8, 2011, 1:07 PM UTC · edited
050
Hi, I have removed this thread. If you have problems with the comments made to you within another subreddit or thread, please address them within that thread or elsewhere on reddit. We ask that you do not post them here because it will only stir up drama and voting brigades. There is a warning about posting links to other subreddits on our submit page. Here is a screencap of that warning in case you have custom styles disabled.
Other subreddits that you may consider for this post would include /r/Feminisms or /r/Feminism. As far as I know, both of those subreddits allow linking to other subreddits.
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Thank you.
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Do you mind if I use that text in a subreddit I moderate?
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Not at all. Here's the CSS:
#link-desc:after, #text-desc:after {
display: block;
margin-top: 1em;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 180%;
color: red;
content: "ATTENTION: Submitting links to other reddit posts or comments is highly discouraged. Threads which do so in a manner that raises drama, creates downvote brigades, or attacks other users are subject to removal."
}
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Thanks. It can be frustrating watching some people go around trying to stir up problems all over the place. The text basically matched our position and the location is great. :)
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This is one of those double standards I really cringe at, because it comes at the expense of children. I feel punishment should fit the crime... not the gender.
7
There absolutely is a double standard when it comes to sex between an adult and a 15 year old. I know I shouldn't be, but I'm biased as well. My natural inclination in that situation is to think "KILL HIM" when it's an older male and a younger female and to think "Good for him", when it's an older female with a younger male.
All the rhetoric you saw is just mental gymnastics to try and justify that bias, rather than confront it.
6
I'm a man and I think that on some issues these "men's rights" guys have a point (for example men often are treated unfairly in divorce/custody battles). That having been said r/mensrights is a fucking shithole, and if you go in there and let them piss you off, they've won.
6
Why didn't you just link to it? I can't even follow who's saying what in your text. R/mensrights will generally argue against the double standard that a male teacher will get in more trouble than a female teacher for sleeping with someone of the opposite sex. Is that wrong?
Like I said, I don't even know what was said by whom in your post, so a link would be nice. Context would be nice as well.
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mensrights is a terrible forum of terrible terrible people.
4
Well, if you're not aware, mensrights is NOT male equiv of 2X.
Feminisms post some things I find extreme and disagreeable, incredibly misandrist. Mensrights has some jackasses like that too. Why don't more people look at 1Y, the ACTUAL male equivalent to 2X? Yes, some things are occasionally biased to men, but it's a mens board. There are female-biased things here too.
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Go into the two forums and compare the top posts.
Number 2 on "whats hot" in mensrights? is a post linking a ton of times mensrights calls women cunts. Number one comment on that? Saying it's warranted.
-6
I just did exactly as you said.
The thread mentioned is about how misogynist terms are used too often in menrights ("Are you concerned about the frequency with which people use "bitch" and "cunt" in this reddit? Use these search terms and actually see how common they are" in reference to misogynistic terms) - posted less than an hour ago, and the number one comment in it is only up by 1 point. Your statistics are flawed and unreasonable. Please return with something sound, not something that BARELY supports you POV for more than a mere five minutes.
Edit: Just revisited that thread. Not yet 24 hours after it was posted, it says. Guess what?
Free speech is free speech. However, I think using these words that are especially offensive to women can hurt our causes.
Top comment.
These words (or any vulgarities) really undermine the strength of any logical argument or rational point to an impartial observer.
Excerpt from the second top comment.
5
It kinda seems like you are trying to discredit the wrong side here.
Like you aren't gonna address the content that mensrights apparently calls ladies bitches and cunts all the time? Your focus is totally on showing that mensrights isn't actually gonna care about questioning that aspect of the community?
-7
You are comparing a subreddit specifically for the discussion of mens' rights against a subreddit for female-oriented discussion, which includes but is not limited to only discussing womens' rights.
The two subreddits are not antithetical. Woooah's comment above is spot on.
2
The concepts are not antithetical, the forums however clearly very often are.
-2
Absolutely. The idea that men deserve equal rights is despicable. Any person who suggests it is a terrible person.
-7
Yeah, the problem is that men don't have equal rights to women. We just happen to have a lopsided culture in which by an large, we are more protected than women.
So don't say that "men" deserve equal rights. We ALL do.
4
We just happen to have a lopsided culture in which by an large, we are more protected than women.
You must live in opposite world. Men are more likely to be assaulted, men are given much harsher prison sentences for equal crimes. Only men can be drafted. Men are 13 times more likely to be injured while working and much more likely to be killed while working. Men make up the overwhelming percentage of homeless people and a higher percentage of suicides.
We live in a culture where women attacking men is comedy and the reverse, even in self defence, is socially unacceptable and highly punishable. Domestic abuse ads and shelters cater to women and perpetuate the myth that only men are abusers, men who are abused by a woman are afraid to call the cops not because of reprisal from their spouse but from reprisal from the cops.
And many at r/mensrights seek to change this, to give men actual equality where it is lacking, and still many insist on focusing on the very worst part and attempting to paint us all with that same brush, and I'm fucking sick of it.
7
I think every single one of your complaints here can be boiled down to the society that we have created around ourselves. Why are men more likely to be assaulted? Because we push stereotypes that men are aggressive. Women are not supposed to be aggressive or dominant, and so they are still not permitted to be drafted for military service. Traditional society says they shouldn't be there. Aggression against men by women is comedic because of the infantile "Ha ha, you got beat up by a girl" mentality that pervades society. Men abused by a woman are more likely to not speak up about it, and have fewer services to protect them because society thinks that such actions are unmanly or "If he can't protect himself against a girl, he deserved it".
We built this society that hurts men as well as women. Of course you're sick of it - who wouldn't be? I just don't think you're going to achieve an equal society by whining about how feminism is taking men's rights away, or blaming women for not being equal in areas of child care, protective services, and the like. As a society long dominated by men, with rules made by us, protected by us, and projected by us, I think it's better just accept that part of our past, and what we have created for ourselves in our present.
-1
Equal to WHO?
2
Women.
-1
and how is being pro-getting raped by pedophiles make men more equal to women exactly?
1
I didn't realize that r/mensrights and the idea that men deserve equal rights were the same thing. I thought that one is a subreddit where people go to type stuff to each other and the other is an idea concerning equality. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1
i haven't heard this case, but usually the problem is that we can't really call it molestation if both parties are willing. if you didn't notice during high school, young men are much more desperate for sex than girls the same age. plenty of 15 year old boys would kill for the chance to get with a sexy teacher, but for some reason law dictates that adults are criminally insane for being sexually attracted to anyone younger than the magic age of 18.
2
The problem is that even if the kid is willing, the adult is in a position of authority and power over him, and that creates ethical problems. It's the same reason why adult therapists should not date adult clients (and the therapist can lose his/her license over this).
What if she was using her authority to manipulate him, like if the kid thought he couldn't reject her advances because it would hurt his grades or she would get him in trouble with his parents? What if they have a messy breakup? What if she gets pregnant - how does that affect the rest of his school career?
It's better to just put a ban on student/teacher relations and avoid the whole mess.
8
Sorry I don't see how you can establish if the child is 'willing'
4
Precisely. The law doesn't dictate that adults are 'criminally insane' for being attracted to 15 year olds, it dictates that 15 year olds are legally unable to consent.
6
Hear! hear!
1
i lost my virginity as a 15 year old, and i was sooo willing. i might have been beyond willing (what would you call that?) if it was with a hot teacher. obviously, i invest more trust into teen judgement than most.
1
So would you be quite okay with a male teacher and a young male student?
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that'd be no different to me. what makes you think i'm a homo-hater? i had a gay teacher in middle school and he was great.
in bed!
ha just kidding.
1
so literally it's just girls we need to protect the purity of?
1
i don't think i related that sentiment before... i'll put my thoughts plainly: what two people do in private out of their own volition shouldn't be illegal, and i don't like that 18 years is the age when a person's sexual volition is recognized by law. i honestly don't care if a 15 and 30 year old want to bang, regardless of their gender and race. 'Purity' is a social construct that disappears the moment we collectively disown it.
btw, someone else pointed out that the real issue here was that student/teacher or boss/employee relationships are troublesome because the superior could make hell for the other if the sexy times stopped flowing.
1
For an adult especially in a position of power to do this to a child is completely unacceptable but honestly I avoid the MRA subreddit like the plague. Unfortunately in there it's a little gang mentality and it's a nice environment, outside of MRA I'll openly advocate for equal rights
2
Now go into Feminisms and see how younger girls consent to older men, while the men are still the punished ones.
I'm an XX, but I'm sick of out-of-context misandry on 2X lately. 1Y is our equivalent. If you want to see extreme mysandric posts, go to feminisms. If you want to see misogynistic posts, go to mensrights.
If you want to see posts by members of either gender genuinely seeking (though not always quite nailing) equality, seek 2X and 1Y.
2X is getting very sexist :/
2
point out some of the extreme mysandry in feminisms, you have mentioned that twice, but you seem to be trying to force that to be true by simple repetition.
-1
You seem to be a butthurt post-stalker, because we already covered this and it has it's own tangent elsewhere. Piss off.
Besides, since you spend SO much time paying "close attention" to r/mensrights, I'm sure you've seen them point out a few very legitimate and undeniable times it's happened*.
*To people of r/feminisms, I'm not saying you're all batshit. I'm saying you get some jackasses who troll or don't fully get the concept, just like mensrights.
1
I think there's definitely a double standard about student/teacher relationships; if it's a male teacher with a female student, everyone's rushing to crucify him and saying that the girl must be a victim, whereas if it's a female teacher with a male student, many people laugh and say he's a lucky kid. Sometimes the student is being taken advantage of, regardless of gender, but I think sometimes the student is willing. I think it's unfortunate that age is the only way consent can be regulated, because maturity is so variable and I think many fifteen-year-olds are capable of consent.
Frankly, I'm sure there are lots of students who do willingly engage in relationships with their teachers. It's obviously not terribly ethical of the teachers, but depending on the age and maturity level of the students (and obviously a lot of other details of each individual sitation), I think of it as a situation more similar to a boss dating an employee than to pedophilia.
2
You realize it is not your duty to go into a subreddit full of views you don't agree with and heroically defend a person in an article you've never met, which does not benefit them in any way. Why are you so worked up?
2
15 is the age of consent in many states. 15 years old can consent to sex with each other. Now, I agree that sex with students is wrong, since the teacher is in a position of authority and should know better, but if a person is in their early 20s, with a teen, I don't see a huge issue with that. ETA: This is not a case of child molestation. 15 is pubescent, and thus not a child.
1
OK, I just went to the link, and now I know your whole post here is bullshit.
Every single one of the comments you just posted were said by different people. Only a couple of people were saying it's not rape, and they didn't receive a lot of upvotes. Even the ones that said it might not be rape seemed to be speaking in a moral sense, not a legal sense (and judges often agree, that's why the penalties often aren't as severe as child rape). Everyone knows under 18 is considered a child, but i think we all know that some boys and girls are mature enough to make their own decisions and can actually consent (although that probably wasn't the case in this instance being it was a special ed student). It's often more of an ethical violation for a teacher (male or female) to sleep with students than it is an issue of child rape.
Hell most of your comments were pretty well upvoted when you yourself pointed out that you thought it was rape.
What the hell are you even complaining about?
I urge everyone reading this post to go to the actual thread and read it before passing judgement.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/htqp9/female_teacher_charged_in_affair_with_15yearold/