Source
r/stormkingsthunder•
DumbMuscle

Explaining and extending the Ordning

I've had some thoughts on how to present the Ordning, that I would like to share. Also, on how to extend it down to other giantkin.

The best way I have found to explain how the ordning works between, say, a powerful Stone Giant and a weak Frost Giant is to use military ranks. Most people are familiar with the idea of a sergeant who is incredibly capable, but serving under an incompetent officer - the Ordning is much the same. The sergeant (stone giant) may be more capable in every way, and may be the one actually calling the shots in practice if they ever work together, but the officer (frost giant) is still higher rank. In a very traditional army, it would be impossible for the sergeant to become an officer (e.g. they are of low birth), or for the officer to be in a position as demeaning as sergeant (e.g. they are a noble). It's an explanation that also works IC, and it helped my players properly understand some of the power dynamics at play. It's not a perfect analogy, because they are generally very different chains of command, but it helps.

In addition, extending the ordning downwards is an option - the canon ordering is titans • storm giants • cloud giants • fog giants • fire giants • frost giants • stone giants • mountain giants • hill giants • ettins • giant-kin • ogres (source: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ordning_(social_structure) ). I'd add Oni in there above ettins (with an Ordning of Arcana), Fomorians next (Ordning of Cruelty), and in my campaign I've described Firbolgs as having a defined place in the ordning of "outside the ordning", in a way almost akin to a jester in a royal court. Cyclops are described as being canonically non-religious, so may have rejected the Ordning many thousands of years previously. Also in my campaign, goliaths are giant-kin (because I honestly thought they were anyway, and now I'm just running with it), with an Ordning of Honor which plays into the "fair play" part of their race description. I'm not necessarily expecting all of this to be relevant to the main plot at this stage, but it provides options for side quests or post-module extensions to the story, or just extra interesting background details.

Obviously, I'm playing around with FR canon a lot here - so this should all be taken as "things I think are cool for my own worldbuilding, with a nod to what FR does" rather than "things that are true in the module".

I also have a goliath player (see previous comments - I thought they were giant kin, and now I'm just running with it), who I am giving a brief which explains some of the instinctual feeling of maat and maug, and their innate knowledge of their place in the Ordning - and the fact that that feeling just vanished a couple of months ago. They're coming in late, at a point where the other players have already had some of these concepts explained in their interactions with giants and other knowledgeable NPCs, so the party in general isn't getting this information early - but I'm not sure it would be much of an issue if they were, to be honest. Of course, this means the player is already trying to work out how to manipulate things to get Goliaths further up the ordning by the end of the campaign, which can only be a good thing!

Posted Jul 23, 2020, 9:10 AM UTC

15
DumbMuscleOP•

I've also been pointed towards the 2e "Giantcraft" splatbook for the forgotten realms, which goes in to a ton of details on the various giants and their pantheon, and seems to be a good resource for anyone else wanting to add more depth to the giants.

2
Irontruth•

Something to remember is that this is a fantasy world, so we can take a real world expectation and completely flip it.

Why are hill giants actually weaker (lower strength score) than storm giants?

In the real world, we would look towards some kind of physical explanation, like biology/evolution. But this is a fantasy world, the answer could be the Ordning. Storm giants are literally stronger and larger because they hold a higher place on the Ordning.

If fire giants could supplant cloud giants, they would actually just become a bigger and stronger subspecies of giant. If goliaths could get above ettins, maybe they'd get bigger and stronger too.

1
DumbMuscleOP•

I've absolutely hinted at that to my players! They've even come across titanic giant corpses, because a) I found a cool map for an encounter, and b) the giants at the heyday of their empire were literally larger.

The possibility of making a PC large by the end of the post-module campaign hadn't occured to me, but now you mention it, it's something I might do so long as I can come up with equally cool story beats for the other players. Or I may just extend how long her "Giant Might" (from Rune Knight) lasts, since that's a cool shiny which doesn't make that much difference in practice (5 minutes of being large and strong isn't actually much more useful than 1 minute, but feels good to the character)

1
Irontruth•

One idea is to have these rewards take the place of magic items (talk to the player, see if they dig this idea and buy into it). This will also give you a sense of how powerful the benefits can be. Getting a +2 to strength is about the same as a +1 sword (you get the +1 to skills, but you don't get past a lot of damage resistance).

My campaign fell apart for real life reasons, but my players were actually a Goliath clan, so I was dealing with this stuff. For example, after they defeated the Hill Giant chief, I added a benefit that if they did 1 week of manual labor during down time, they got advantage on all Strength (Athletics) checks for a month. I was going to do additional small benefits like that for the whole group based on each giant type.

1
Lumenati•

My main contribution to the Ordning lore in my game was how I used Fomorians. In my canon, the idea that Fomorians were giant-kin was a misconception / lie.

The truth was that in ancient times, Fomorians were known as Faerie Giants. They were True Giants known for their beauty and their unique ordning that prized magical ability. They became proud and vain and resentful of their low place in the Ordning (just above Stone Giants). They left Faerun and invaded the realm of Faerie, carving out their own kingdom. They renounced Annam and the Giant Pantheon, believing in their own supremacy. When they were cursed by Queen Titania, the Giant gods did nothing to save them and the other True Giants denied they were ever one of them, convincing themselves that Fomorians were lowly giant-kin all along.

This was mean to mirror the little snippet of lore around Karontor, the Fomorian god, who had a similar downfall of pride. The idea is that no one knows which came first. Did the Fomorians unknowingly follow their god's example or did their fall from grace reflect itself in the Astral Plane. I left that up to personal interpretation.

It was a fun addition because I could throw in some surprises around the established lore. It also let me bring in "magic/fey" as a thematic element. I replaced the goblins in Nightstone with Darklings, cursed dark fey agents allied with a Fomorian king (bonus giant lord) searching for a way to use the Lady's ring to absorb/lift their mutual curse. I had Zephyros discover more about this revelation through divination, which helped me explain his abrupt exit and absence (he took his tower to the Moonshae Isles where there was a portal to Faerie large enough to accommodate his whole flying castle). It was an early tidbit and then years of play later it paid off when they sailed with Hekaton to the Moonshae Isles to rendezvous with Zephyros.

In the end they allied with a Fomorian prince who was able to cure his curse with the ring and he joined their final battle against Iymrith alongside Hekaton, Zephyros, Harshnag, Braxow, a Fire Giant defector they dealt with often, and a random Hill Giant. Our lil' Giant Avengers. Made the fight feel more personal, like a real season finale.

1