Source
r/summonerschool•
CountJudas

Question about spell range indicators and bringing them up via keybinds?

Question

Hey guys. Quick question regarding how to bring up spell range indicators when I always use quickcast. So for years I've been playing with quickcast and had no issues, but watching some pro streams and they tend to bring up the range indicators despite having quickcast on 99% of the game. Example would be after Zed uses his R. I've seen some players bring up the indicator on the zed shadows to make sure he can hit all 3 by lining them up with the indicators. I've messed with settings, and each time I manage to bring up the ranges, my champion will stand still. Obviously not very efficient when trying to aim that vital CC.

Sorry if this has been asked before. I couldn't find a clear answer. Just threads from 5 years ago.

Posted Jul 27, 2020, 9:39 AM UTC

70782
veranathemacity•

Lots of people have keybinds to show the ability ranges. By default Shift + q,w,e,r quickcasts the ability, but if you already quickcast them then there's no point having two keybinds for that. So some people rebind those to normal cast the ability. Personally I rebind them to "quick cast with indicator" which you can find in the hotkeys settings, which shows an indicator if you hold the key and casts it as soon as you release the key.

253
putsandstock•

Hijacking the top thread to strongly suggest nobody use quickcast with indicator. Quickcast with indicator is actually really slow compared to quickcast and even normal cast. This is because the time it takes for the key to come back up and register as released is non-trivial. In contrast, both quickcast and normal cast rely only on presses and thus aren't subject to this delay.

You can test it out here (this site is meant to test keyboard scan rates by measuring the minimum difference in time between key-press and key-release). For me, the average delay is ~50ms. For some abilities this won't matter that much, but this is a huge deal for things like Fiora W or Irelia Q (it makes both of them pretty unplayable).

Use quickcast normally and normal cast when you want the indicator. Pros complain when they have 20 more ping than usual; don't give yourself 50 for no reason.

105
[deleted]•

[deleted]

27
veranathemacity•

I mean this post is in the context of lining up skillshots, so for that purpose you're never going to be trying to cast the ability instantly, no?

But also, you do know that you can use quick cast with indicator the same way as normal cast right? Left clicking when you have quick cast with indicator pressed will fire the ability too.

16
putsandstock•

Oh I did not know that, that’s interesting.

Even if you’re lining up your skill shot, once it’s lined up it’s faster to press mouse than it is to release key. From the time you make the decision to fire, there will be less wasted time if you use the mouse press.

EDIT: See below! I actually tested this and it turns out they seem pretty much the same, maybe a slight edge to the mouse but probably within the margin of error.

3
veranathemacity•

I believe it shouldn't be faster, unless your mouse is faster than your keyboard (which is an argument you can make I guess but there's no way of knowing that for everyone).

In the case where you release the key from holding it down then the delay should be about the same as pressing it down from not holding it, which would be less than or equal to the smallest number you could get from the site (which it talks about where it shows the scan rate formula). It measures the release time because it needs to compare the time between two events from the same key to see how fast it can update; with the assumption you release the key instantly then the only delay is from the keyboard electronics. There would be an equivalent delay between you pressing the key and it registering on the computer, which isn't measured because there's no way of knowing when you actually pressed the key. And a mouse button press would have a similar delay for the same reasons, which could be more or less depending on your hardware.

3
H45XZ•

Is this really bad when we are not "pro" player ? I mean, I'm a little new si should I go QC to take the habits or stay on QC with indicator's ?

6
leggomyeggo69420•

If you're new you should see the indicators until you learn the champ. I think a lot of people start playing with normal cast on, then switch to quick casting once they figure out their ranges.

10
MeetchelUnranked•

I use quick cast for virtually all abilities, even on champs I don't know. If you've been playing long enough I think you have a decent enough handle on ranges by seeing them in others' hands. It becomes evident very quickly what the ranges are. I do have alt-Q/W/E/R bound to normal cast but almost never use it.

3
chadlyalan•

so when I was new i played with normal cast for years. I used shift + qwer to "smart cast" when i wanted to quick cast. Once I felt like i wanted to quick cast all the time cause i knew my abilities I swapped shift to be normal cast, and made everything quickcast by default. I can get the indicator when I want it, and quick almost all the time. I still normal cast things when i'm bush camping or something to see the exact range so it's nice to have this option.
It's also smart to have indicators for wards and items.

3
putsandstock•

I personally use quickcast on Q/W/E/R and normal cast with Shift+Q/W/E/R whenever I want to see the indicators. If you're mostly playing casually and aren't too invested, I'd say it won't matter too much. People get to Masters+ on 100+ ping, after all, so it's not like it'll ever be the biggest thing holding you back.

If you play champions like Irelia, Fiora, Riven, Lee Sin, Yasuo, Akali, etc., though, I think it's pretty important. And if you're planning on playing the game long-term or more seriously, I don't think there's any reason not to get used it quickcast ASAP, as you can just use the Shift normal cast when learning new ability ranges.

1
H45XZ•

Okay with everybody saying that it's better I tried and yeah I got better time to use them, and because I know my champ I already know the range (except for ekko's q or swain's e), but I don't understand one thing : how you use the normal cast with the shift ?

I mean, I thing it's a question of fingers : I really don't arrive to shift + qwer. I've got my 4 fingers on the QWER and it's very hard to get to the shift, how you do it ?

1
NumberOneGun•

You'll want quick cast no matter what. Its just faster than the other two. The drawback is you cant see ranges so it takes awhile to get used to that. Thats why having normal cast on a second key bind can be helpful to learn ranges. And even after that for percise situations. The previous post stated why quick cast with indicators can make it feel like you are playing with additional ping and isnt ideal to use but its preference between normal cast and wuick cast with indicators.

1
Spartan569874•

Too add to this, sometimes it’s possible to be spamming the key so fast that you don’t fully let the key release. I find this happens for me especially when using pyke e or kaisa R. You end up giving yourself 200+ ms when you do this.

2
NotTheTrueKing•

How exactly could having to bring the indicator up and click be slower than just letting go of a button?

1
putsandstock•

I assume you meant "faster"? You can press the mouse button any time after you press the key for normal cast and the mouse press will register almost instantly as soon as the contacts touch and the circuit is closed. Releasing a key, however, means the switch has to bounce back up and then register, which takes more time if you're pressing your keys normally.

Did you try testing it out in the link? For "normal" key presses, press->release takes about 30-80ms for me depending on how "crisp" my presses are. By "flicking" the edge of the key (similar to how many people short-hop in Smash Bros), your finger doesn't have to move out of the way as much and the key release takes around 10ms for me, but I don't think this is a realistic way to play the game.

2
KarmaFireAZ•

Point and click or press and release...

1
angeph•

but for example I main Ahri, she has both e and q that I'd rather use the indicator with ti hit with the tip, I mean I already kind of know the ranges of those abilities but idk itd be hard using shift e and then shit q to check indicator.

1
angeph•

ok, I just combo on the link you gave, it was about 144 for the whole thing D:

I should get use to quick cast then

2
merv243•

Maybe this is why I sometimes don't quite always cast things when I expect to. When I am really firing them off as quickly as I can, sometimes I'll get through a combo only to realize I didn't actually cast one (because I'm also kiting or AAing and right clicking, which maybe has a larger window to interrupt than I think it does).

1
Thegenius760•

Can you cancel the cast before lifting the key up?

3
fakespeare999•

i believe right click will cancel the range indicator and move your champion towards the click location

15
Thegenius760•

Thank you

2
mustl2p•

But it won’t move your character, it just stops the spell command (I’m pretty sure)

7
veranathemacity•

Yes with a movement command (so by right clicking anywhere will do it).

2
regular-doggo•

I use quickcast on all spells and have special binds like ctrl + Q/W/E/R for leveling up spells and shift + Q/W/E/R for casting with indicator.

57
MedalsNScars•

special binds like ctrl + Q/W/E/R for leveling up spells

FYI I believe this is default. Or at the very least I set it 7+ years ago and forgot it was something I had to set myself.

10
Eball18•

How do you do this in the settings?

6
AgentDOd•

You bind the "normal cast" abilities to Shift+Q, Shift+W and so on.

7
SternfeuerGold I•

I'm not sure if you are aware that there are 3 possible ways to use abilities.

  • Normal cast - you press the abilities button, the cursor changes and range indicator shows up, then you have to click somewhere to use the ability
  • Quick cast (aka smartcast) - The ability is cast on the cursor position when pressing the button
  • Qick cast with indicators - On pressing the ability button the indicator is shown, on releasing the button the ability is cast on cursor position

If you can get used to it, the 3rd option is basically a better smartcast. On the "quick-keybind" menu on the top, it can only be enabled/disabled for all abilities. (checkbox in the lower left)

Via the keybindings menu it can be bound for specific abilities. But if you play multiple champs with different preferences for the indicators, you have to change bindings every game, depending on the champ you play.

43
Eball18•

While quick cast with indicator is better for beginners, the fact that you have the additional latency of needing to press down AND release means that it will always be slower than true quick cast. Thus, it is beneficial to try to learn the ranges and use smart cast only, at least for your main champs

27
McDrewbsDiamond III•

Speed often isn't the most important thing for a lot of skillshots, precision is.

8
SternfeuerGold I•

Yes, marginally and i doubt it is relevant unless you are challenger or pro.

If i remember right, Froggen used to play with normal cast and still plays with quickcast with indicators (he sets it up depending on which champ he plays)

2†
putsandstock•

For me it's about 50ms, which is actually huge. The average human visual reaction time is something like ~215ms. 50ms is the difference between average and really fast.

Just consider something like Fiora W. If a spell takes me ~200ms to react to, I'll W it maybe half the time with quickcast. With quickcast+indicator, I'll need to react within ~150ms, which means I'll essentially never be able to get it.

It's even worse with spammable abilities like Irelia Q since the effect happens every time you cast Q. I just tried it for a bit in practice tool and it feels like having bad ping. If you've ever played on ~20 ping and then on ~70 ping, you know the difference isn't marginal at all.

Now that I think about it, this actually might be the reason Riot forces some spells like Morde Q and Yas Q to be quickcast only, so that nobody uses quickcast+indicator and complains about never being able to hit their spells.

Does Froggen really use quickcast+indicator? It's probably okay on specific spells that you essentially always want to aim carefully (Veigar cage comes to mind), but I really don't see how it's ever better than normal cast if you want an indicator, as you can press your mouse button faster than you can release a key.

3
GoodVibesLLCDiamond IV•

Not saying it's the best for everyone, but there are a handful of extremely high level players who don't use smartcast. Off the top of my head I can think of Dopa

3
MrKiwiismDiamond III•

Interesting I use quick cast with indicators since like season 3 and I’ve never noticed it being slow. For me having the indicator is just more important so I can know if an ability will hit or where it will go. Idk tho I main thresh/blitz (any skill shot champ) so it might be a champ difference thing. I rarely look at the indicator though so maybe I’ll try it without Indicator and see how faster it is. But for me I’ve never not hit a Fiora W of Sivir E or Morgana Q zilean Ult because of the time it takes to let go of the button on the keyboard.

3
sandote•

Well this could be huge for me. I always use quickcast with indicator, and I wish I had a dollar for every time I reactively used my W just for it to not go off in time for a counter-CC.

2
TT366•

I always use the 3rd option, but for whatever reason, every time when I use an ability, I still click, because normal cast feels bad to me. Also I only use Attackmove (a+lmb) to attack, everything else just feels bad.

18
WestaAlger•

I thought quick cast with indicator was the one called smartcast?

6
SternfeuerGold I•

I've heard it for both, but idk if there is a general consensus. I'll always refer to the 2nd one, because quick cast with indicators wasn't around when i started playing.

6
crappy_entrepreneur•

In in-game settings; it’s called “smart cast” and “smart cast with range indicators”

1
MrFilthyNeckbeard•

Quick cast= I press Q, ability goes.

Quick cast with indicators = I press Q, range comes up, ability goes when i release Q

Neither are labelled as "smart" in the game but usually people mean the first one.

1
putsandstock•

If you can get used to it, the 3rd option is basically a better smartcast.

From a speed perspective, I think it's actually strictly the worst option, slower than both quickcast and normal cast. My average key press->release time is about 50ms for normal presses. The lowest I can get it to is 10ms by flicking the edge of a key, but this not a realistic way to press abilities. You're essentially introducing ~50ms of "ping" into your ability usage between the press registering and the release registering, which is a really big deal.

Both quickcast and normal cast only rely on presses, so neither of them are affected by this inherent release-lag.

3
scuba156•

The main point in your question hasn't really been answered.

If you use the indicators, then you cannot issue a mouse command to move your champion while the indicator is displayed. This is because a mouse click is used to cancel the ability cast. You can issue a move command, then bring up the range indicator and your champion will continue moving towards the last move command, but you cannot change direction without first canceling the ability or using the ability.

20
Sam__Mule•

Good point, i think that can be solved by secondary binding your move command to “shift+ left mouse button” or “ctrl + left mouse button”

1
pm_me_you_in_latex•

I can just hold the button for the indicators to come up and if I just tap the button the spells gets off instantly.

6
AnBaSi•

That’s quick cast with indicators

7
pm_me_you_in_latex•

Aye, forgot the name of it, but it seems like that's what OP is after unless I misunderstood him

Edit: Nvm saw now that people have already suggested it, RIP :'(

3
hadenthefox•

How does this work for something like MF ult or Malz ult where you have to hold down R for as long as you want to ult?

1
angelicvixen•

You don't have to hold down the button to channel. Just don't put in any other input like a click-move. MF, Malz, Kata, Nunu...you don't have to hold down the key.

Plus for a couple, nunu and I don't remember who else, tapping early to end the channel early is a thing. And with Xerath and I think Jhin, you have to use the R button to fire his missiles so you can't hold down the button anyway.

Also: it pops up with the indicator and starts the channel upon release because channels don't have to be held down.

4
hadenthefox•

Got it, thanks! I remember trying quickcast with indicators in the past, but I move click so much that I mess up spell casting in teamfights because I'll click in between pressing and releasing a spell so it doesn't go off. I might try it on champs like blitz or thresh where knowing the exact range indicator could help, but for my mains like Sivir, I know my range on my Q and that's all I need.

1
pm_me_you_in_latex•

Atleast with MF ult you just tap it once.

1
putsandstock•

It actually doesn't go off instantly. You can use this website to see how much time passes between key-press and key-release. For me, it's about 50ms for a normal press and 10ms for an unrealistically quick flick.

You're essentially introducing ~50ms lag to your ability usage compared to both quickcast and normal cast, since neither of these are affected by inherent release-time lag.

0
A3DSkywarrior•

In setting you can add modifiers for things like normal cast, sepf cast, and Quick cast with indicators. It is in Abilities and Summoner Spells.

Mine is on Alt + QWER

4
BitRapt0r•

Other comments have explained it pretty well, so just to chime in I use Quick cast on everything, then I have Alt + QWER as Normal cast. I use a Logitech G502, so I keep the thumb button bound to Alt. That way, using Quick and Normal cast doesn’t change my left hand position at all, so in the middle of a fight I don’t get confused or overwhelmed with left hand controls.

2
KataObsidian•

i got my binding all on quick cast and set all abilities to normal cast on hotkeys like shift + q,w,e,r etc.

this way you have the normal quick cast by just pressing the desired button and the range + indicator when u press shift + ability.

2
Zacia•

That makes sense, nice

1
Wobbar•

"quick cast with indicator" under hotkeys iirc

1
m1fun3•

It is important to remember that quick cast with range indicator casts the spell when you release the button and you can hold down the button to see the indicators. Quick cast without indicator casts it exactly when you push down the button.

1
Bitarrded•

Yes, i rebind shift+r for normal cast when i started struggling with pyke R

Some people playing with veigar E on normal cast, while others Quick Cast

Recently i rebind Zoe E on quickcast with indicator,

Quick cast with indicator is really bad and fk up ur combo, but for spells like zoe E, pyke R and zed Q its ok

1
angelicvixen•

I use the Quick Cast with Indicator option and then hold the button. If I"m still holding the key down when I go to right click or something, it cancels. There's other ways it ends up cancelling as well. But, with QC + indicator, it doesn't seem to cast until you let go of the button. IMO that is the best option over trying to use base QC, esp if you want indicators.

1
Bistrocca•

I think OP is confusing the A button with quickcast with indicators. Pros use A most of the times out of a habit, so after I W with Zed, i press A to deal 1 aa to them before pressing Q.

I might be wrong but pros hardly use quickcast with indicator.

1
e_z_boi•

You could also hold the ability button to see the range (it doesn't work with all of them tho. For instance, Swain E does, while I believe that Yasuo Q doesn't. Also, the "activatable" abilities like Jax's W and E or Fiora E just get activated anyway)

1
FewerEarth•

My spell range indicators come up automatically when I hold the ability key down

1
MercyToAll•

I use quick cast but then binded normal cast to shift + qwer. Then like if I play lux or something I can see the ult range where I can snipe or maybe even like Syndra Q. And if I use quick with indicator I sometimes let go accidentally if I want to cancel it out of habit so I just don’t use it and I use normal cast

All personal preference though

1
xBushx•

You can also hover a skill to show range when using quick cast. Probably mentioned

1
imheretostate•

great question. i also have a question regarding quickcast. if i have it on, why is it for some champs i can see the indicators. for yasuo when i play him i don't see any indicators but when i play someone like pyke i see all indicators and i was wondering how to turn it off. anything can help thx!

1
ProdigiousFlow•

You can just hold the button to show range on quick cast and right click to cancel it so you don’t use the ability

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1