Source
r/unpopularopinion•
DMScum

People that argue against UBI or an equivalent with "Nobody will work then" are lazy people that are projecting their laziness on others.

To the average person, sitting around doing nothing is unfathomable. We take up hobbies, we do things. If money were the incentive behind the human drive we wouldn't have teachers at all since they're massively underpaid and don't get many hours. We'd also have a ton of doctors since doctors get paid really well, however there is a shortage of doctors in America. What this should tell you is that people don't choose career paths based on income. They choose it based on what sounds interesting or exciting to them. Think about this for a moment. People choose careers because they are interested in those careers. INTEREST. People get a rush out of working in a field they love, in theory. It doesn't always work that way for everyone. However, people are not bumps on a log and we would 100% continue working if you gave everyone a base living wage regardless of employment status. We'd just be more empowered to do more interesting things.

Posted Aug 9, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

1341
[deleted]•

Those are usually the same people that complain that minimum wage shouldn't be 20 dollars and hour. They are blind to the fact that wages stayed stagnant for the last 30 years and didn't keep up with inflation.

7
DMScumOP•

It's closer to 40, actually. We've seen minimum wage go up a few cents since the 80s, but nothing substantial. Meanwhile the cost of housing has more than doubled, the cost of gasoline has nearly tripled, etc. The minimum wage vs inflation thing is actually so bad that for the first time in US history we have a generation where the average 30 year old is no richer than they were when they were 20 (the millennials), and yet we still have people insisting that being poor is a choice. You'd need to conclude that we have an entire generation of idiots to come to that conclusion.

7
[deleted]•

And what baffles me more is that politicians don't get that if people had a decent minimum wage the economy would be way better. People who have more money spend more on things. But instead they want to keep people on the brink of homelessnes having to work 2 jobs to be able to afford a shitty one bedroom and never getting ahead.

3
SadisticUnicorn•

I just find it hilarious when people think 12k/year is enough to do nothing and live comfortably on.

6
r2k398Gives zero f*cks•

Choosing something based only on how fun and interesting it is leads to people having $60k in student loans and a virtually useless degree.

5
[deleted]•

Yes and the UBI would be a fix for that, so we could have people engaging in a broader scope of interests instead of having to submit to whatever the demands of capitalism are at the time.

For example, if somebody wants to major in sociology, which in most cases won't lead to a huge salary, that's okay, because they have the UBI to support the low salary they get from working in the field. So more people are out there learning about more things than just supply and demand itself dictating what jobs everyone has to pick from.

2
r2k398Gives zero f*cks•

How much is UBI going to be so that it covers the gap between wages and living expenses but also leaves enough money to pay back student loans?

3
vanharteopenkaartr/DumbPopularOpinion•

To the average person, sitting around doing nothing is unfathomable. We take up hobbies, we do things.

To some people hobbies are “doing nothing”

If money were the incentive behind the human drive we wouldn't have teachers at all since they're massively underpaid and don't get many hours.

Teachers underpaid? Compared to what

<We'd also have a ton of doctors since doctors get paid really well, however there is a shortage of doctors in America.

Yeah no because not everyone can get into med school

4
AndracoDragon•

Yeah no because not everyone can get into med school

Not everyone can but more people can then currently do. That's his point. Not enough people find doctoring interesting enough to do as a job.

2
[deleted]•

Teachers underpaid? Compared to what

Compared to the cost of living, given the importance of the job.

2
Mediocre-Reflection•

At the end of the day your survival takes effort, if you don’t put in the effort to survive on your own then who in the world do you trust to insure your survival? If you think can trust any government to do that for you well I’m sorry.

Do you know why teachers get paid so little because that’s the bare minimum they can be paid and still get them on the job, and it’s the same reason as why doctors get paid so much because that’s the bare minimum to pay them for putting their life on hold to finish med school, pay for med school, and then put up with doctor life. But the reason that is is because no one is willing to pay too much for anything, I’m not willing to buy $4 worth of raw hamburger meat for $20, and neither are you.

This is what happens when the government is in charge of school, people go to public school for 13 years and still can’t fricken figure out economics, taxes, or simple cause and effect.

3
DMScumOP•

I think it's more telling of you than the government that you have a complete lack of trust and think the government is out to get you. This whole anti-government thing is strictly American. People like you are so stupid you undermine the government's function and then blame the government for your own failings, then project your own failings on everyone else because you can't possibly accept that you're wrong. Smith, Locke, and Keynes were wrong and America won't let go.

0
Mediocre-Reflection•

So naive, you’ll understand better when once you get older. I’m not anti government and no the government is not out to get me, but it has one function. It only seeks to preserve itself and its power. And to that effect we are all just human potatoes to it, a commodity. If it drops one potato, oops no big deal. If it drops a 100 potatoes. Then it might stop to pick you up. You see this all the time, if a tornado destroys one house oops, destroys 50 houses nation guard gets called in to help and federal relief money gets pumped in. It was disaster regardless whether it was 1 or 50, but it doesn’t do as much for the one as it did for all the ones that added up to 50. The problem with UBI is that living and surviving isn’t a one size fits all kind of deal, but the government can’t deal with things on an individual level so no matter what you’re not going to get all you want or need. And the only way to achieve a UBI, is to take away from the effort of someone working hard enough to attain more than just what they need. It’s not that government doesn’t care about it’s potatoes, but if you had 328 million of anything you’d be just as likely to step on a few to save the rest of them as the government is. So grow some thicker skin, lose the naivety, and realize the only person you’ll ever be able to truly rely on to help you is you, and then realize every one else is in that same boat.

3
DMScumOP•

Yeah...man.

Except in literally every other country the government has social safety nets in place. It is you, the American conservative, that has a warped understanding of government. It is baffling how selfish and outright evil the American conservative is.

2
Mediocre-Reflection•

Well move to one of those countries, especially if you won’t get off your butt, off the couch, and off your phone to go to work. I’m not going to support someone that isn’t willing to do for themself. Living isn’t supposed to be easy and success isn’t something you can give someone. If you want or anyone else wants to be a scrub that’s fine, but don’t expect me to pay for your video games, phone bills, or pornhub subscriptions... because that’s essentially what it boils down to. I want to succeed therefore I try, and I try fricken hard, if you or anyone else won’t do the same I got nothing to give you except advice. Go to work, and work your butt off, care about the details. What would you have us do when the level of laziness goes down to some won’t lift a fork to feed themselves, should all or just some of the working people at that point be forced to spoon feed them mushed food to keep them alive??? Aat what point is it enough going to be enough for you??? Because if you say it’s just a UBI, you’re fricken lying because then you’ll want to increase it because it’s inhuman on how little they get. It’s not charity, charity is a voluntary act and an individual that chooses to give can choose where that goes, this is flat out stealing of people’s time and effort just because they are willing to try to do more than just live...

2
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
KingKellyIsKool•

Ubi requires technology far superior to what we have now, as I highly doubt there are enough people with a passion for working in retail to supplement what people want.

Also to be totally honest, I and many others don’t give a shit about art which is the most common example of what people do. I don’t look at art very much at the moment so why would I want more mediocre artists?

2
Meow0S•

Even then, good artists can find ways to monetize their content on the internet. Some Youtuber creators are a good example of artists who make money.

2
KingKellyIsKool•

Or even actual artists. Plenty of people make a living from painting etc. if they have talent

1
[deleted]•

Ubi requires technology far superior to what we have now, as I highly doubt there are enough people with a passion for working in retail to supplement what people want.

No, they will work in retail to supplement their income. The UBI is just meant to cover the bare basics. Anybody who wants to live comfortably and be able to afford nice cars, vacations, etc., would get jobs to supplement their UBI. People would work retail jobs for that reason.

1
KingKellyIsKool•

Ok so what is the point of the ubi then? If people work the same as they did before then there is no change, they are just a bit richer, if they do work less then we won’t have enough people working in areas that we need

1
[deleted]•

To clarify, I am talking about large UBIs, not small ones, and I am perfectly fine with small ones, just not the ones that replace the need for a job. Maybe some people will work. But it will be less, and it will be for fewer hours. Nobody wants to go to work for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, or meet tough deadlines. Take away the monetary example, and people will work less hours, refuse high stress jobs, and prioritize literally anything above work. Now I have no problem with people doing this, but I do have a problem with hardworking people paying for that. Because thats the reality of the situation when UBIs are paid for by taxes.

2
DMScumOP•

You do realize you don't need monetary incentives for people to work, right? We were hunter/gatherers for years without corporations waving dollars in front of us. Mazlow's hierarchy of needs kicks in at some point and people will naturally build the necessities to exist. This idea that if you don't have monetary incentives people will do nothing does not hold if you know the most basic things about psychology.

-1
[deleted]•

...we were hunter gatherers because the alternative was starving. We invented money as an easy way to exchange goods. They didnt have a UBI, they still worked, they just got paid in stuff they gathered and hunted.

And yes. Maslow’s hierarchy will kick in when our society cant survive off paying people a full time wage to do absolutely nothing with their time. At which point, we will not have the goods and luxuries we are used to, and people will realize that they prefer working to starving.

3
DMScumOP•

So what you are saying is people prefer working and would work to keep the things we're accustomed to. Which is precisely my point. You could pay everyone a living wage for doing nothing and we'd be fine. We might even be in better shape than having a quarter of our population working 60+ hours a week and not being able to get ahead.

-1
[deleted]•

Yeah. Some people will realize. And there will also be people who dont care who wont work, because they expect others to do it for them. And I am sure as hell not paying for them.

2
[deleted]•

OP, you're missing a key part of why people will still work: To make more money than just the UBI, which would only afford people the bare basics. They'd still have a motivation to work and buy the nicer things in life, almost nobody would just sit around cashing in their UBI and being cool with an almost-poor lifestyle if they could make more by working in addition to it.

2
DMScumOP•

I purposefully avoided including any sort of UBI amount in the OP because someone would mention something like "But businesses will just increase prices and cause inflation reeee" or something like that. If I left them not knowing precisely how much and what I meant such a claim would require such a large assumption as to be instantly dismissed.

0
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
LaughStupid•

Broadstroke assumptions build weak arguments.

1
Specter229•

.. I didnt choose to be an ironworker because I was interested in it. I chose it because of the benefits the pay and the pension.

Also there are plenty of people who take advantage of these types of setups. You know the ones who turn welfare into a career.

1
DMScumOP•

You do realize that this literally doesn't happen because welfare is set up in a way that makes it impossible in most states, right?

2
Specter229•

Most states. Not all states. I've known people who stayed on unemployment for as long as they could so they wouldnt have to work back when Obama was allowing extensions. I've met guys who only work the bare minimum to keep their benefits active.

You cant argue that it wont be taken advantage of when the programs we have now are already being taken advantage of.

Argue everyone should make a living wage than people would agree but saying people should get money without having to earn it because they'd wanna work anyway is asinine. You may enjoy the job you chose but alot of us went for the one that pays best and offers benefits. Offer most construction workers the chance to stay home and not destroy their bodies for a paycheck and see how many building still get built.

1
DMScumOP•

All the necessary ones.

1
Specter229•

Lmao are you gonna do it? Cause I'll tell you right now if I'm getting paid and dont have to keep doing ironwork all you're gonna find me doing is playing with my kids since my back and shoulders arent gonna hurt anymore.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
lifebygrace•

I used to be against it but I've come around. I'm not going to cry getting an extra $12k just because it's from "the government". Wars were fought over taxes and now we just accept them as a part of life. Things change but the government always sucks. Atleast they can give the working class something for the trouble.

0