Source
r/kingmakerbuilds•
Eso

Melee caster to round out three person BTSL party

I am playing on normal difficulty (although might up it to challenging if it's too easy) and switching back and forth between RTWP and TB depending on how serious a fight is. I am also using the bag of tricks mod to increase everyone's stats to a 50 point buy so they can have 2 or 3 very high attributes.

First character: Dueling Sword tank/DPS (Thug 4/Aldori Defender X/Duelist dex-tank/damage/traps/locks

Second character: Strength based scimitar wielding magus, probably sword saint with a 1 vivi and 1 scaled fist dip. Kind of fills the same role as the first guy, difficult to hit and does crazy damage. Would also consider going eldritch scion -> arcane trickster with this guy.

So because the first two characters are so similiar in deployment, I'm hoping the last guy can handle the bulk of the magic/support duties, while still being able to survive in melee range and contribute offensively.

So I was considering going melee sorc/fighter -> eldritch knight (and forgoing any kind of divine magic in the group, which might be an issue).

But then I got thinking about mystic theurge, which I know is not a very popular class, but would help me cover divine and arcane magic very well, and should level up very quickly being in such a small party. Then to fulfill "can still survive in melee range" requirement, I got to thinking about some pretty weird stuff.

Like what about from the mods, warpriest (sacred fist subclass) 4/wizard 3 -> mystic theurge or sacred fist 4/sorc 4 -> mystic theurge? Or maybe even sacred fist 4/sword saint 4 -> mystic theurge? Am I crazy for even considering this? Would take a long time to get going, but by the time I start getting to floors in BTSL that actually are a challenge it should be alright? By like level 10 would be like a level ~3 fighter than can cast divine and arcane 3rd level spells.

If this is straight up dumb, can you perhaps suggest an alternative build? Could go straight warpriest, paladin, or cleric build of some kind (can a magus provide enough arcane spell casting to be the only arcane caster in the group?) or else some sort of melee sorc/monk/dragon disc/EK and just not have any divine magic in the group.

Anyhow, thanks for reading, look forward to seeing people's thoughts.

Posted Aug 22, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

48
Feronach•

Mystic theurge is cool because you get to have tons of spells per day, across two spell lists. I recommend Sorcerer / Cleric and match up archetypes to use only WIS or CHA so you can have both Prepared AND Spontaneous casting.

3
EsoOP•

Yeah, I guess empyreal sorc (I think that's the one that uses wisdom) + ecclesitheurge would work pretty well. I would love to get a level of monk (or maybe sacred fist warpriest?) for wisdom to AC, since I do want this guy to be in melee range, even if his BAB is going to be terrible.

1
Feronach•

I do not recommend losing a caster level for some AC. You already won't get one of your spell lists up to 9th level, no need to delay that further.

3
EsoOP•

Now I wonder if monk 1/cleric 3/wizard 3/theurge X would be better, since it would get 8th level cleric spells whereas warpriest caps out at 6th.

1
Mast3rR0b_90•

I'd actually suggest to roll an Inquisitor. You kinda need some Divine magic in your party, and an Inquisitor can get the job done, while contributing to the damage side of combat (either in melee or ranged)

I personally love to play a half Orc focused on intimidating my enemies. The build is simple, but super effective.

Use a glaive, get a 1 lvl dip into Thug, and go with the feat chain to Cornugon Smash/ Shatter defenses.

Even better if you take the Sanctified Slayer archetype (you can add back Bane ability at lvl 5 with Bag of tricks mod. I can't say I always share the same vision as CotW's author on balance).

OR, you could roll a Bard (or a Skald, if you like that more). You'd get sufficient healing abilities, and superb support/buffing.

1
EsoOP•

Inquisitor is actually on my radar (and maybe a trip build would be fantastic with teamwork traits with the other party members being melee and all those delicious attacks of opportunity).

My worry is, am I going to get deep into the dungeon with a melee, a magus, and an Inquisitor, and then bemoan my lack of both divine and arcane magic, or can those characters handle it?

Is the trade off of having two (or three, depending how effective I find the Inquisitor) characters that can shred worth not having access to high level magic and dedicated casters?

Guess there's only one way to find out.

1
Mast3rR0b_90•

I'd advise against a trip build on the Inquisitor. I've already tried it, and it's not good. You need many talents, and you simply don't have enough of them. Also, the requirement of 13 int will make your Stat spread harder to balance.

If you want to trip, roll a fighter (i think there's also a dedicated archetype for combat maneuvers, I think it's called lore warden), trust me.

Instead you can explore on the attack of opportunity concept if you want. Give everyone in the party Outflank and Seize the Moment, end equip weapons with high critical threat range, that should be enough to see the AoOs rolling.

Onto your other question: yes, it can be done. But you are to have that doubt. If you put enough umd on both the Magus and the Inquisitor, you should be somewhat fine, since you'll be able to use scrools and wands.

But I'll tell you what I'd do: I'd let the Magus tank (and do damage, Intensified Shocking Grasp with the Magical Lineage trait really packs a punch), have the Inquisitor damage and debuff enemies, and support the party with divine buffs (imo once you get the heal spell you are set. I find the higher level divine spells somewhat lackluster, with a few exceptions), and lastly I'd take an Arcanist (or an exploiter Wizard) along.

He can be a crowd controller, or a blaster, or whatever you want. Just having access to full arcane casting will be really strong.

2
AsleepWarthog•

I would honestly ditch the first guy. What does he bring that the Sword Saint doesn't? With the Vivisectionist dip, the Sword Saint even gets Trickery as a class skill. And without any ranged combatants, I wouldn't want to send enemies running away with Thug.

I would keep the Sword Saint and run with a party focused on summons and/or Animal Companions. I would perhaps run an Evangelist Cleric with the Animal Domain and the Superior Summoning feat line and just give him a crossbow to stay back. Last guy would be an arcane caster, maybe a Sylvan Sorcerer?

Is it bad I'm thinking of rolling with the two characters I mentioned along with a Kineticist? Mob them with summons along with Kineticist bullshit. I'm not arsed about damaging my summons, they're expendable.

1