We should start using the American flag in conjunction with the BLM flag

Question

I think that using the American flag during BLM protests will have two results:

  1. It will symbolize patriotism for an America that values Black Lives and holds true to the ideal of “liberty and justice for ALL”

  2. By co-opting the American flag, it will invalidate the anti-BLM protestors who use it as a way to feel like they are the ones being patriotic

I would love to discuss this idea in the comments.

Posted Sep 6, 2020, 8:54 PM UTC

46568
HegemoneMilo•

I agree and I carry an American Flag when I'm protesting injustice with my BLM signs. I could have pride in my country if it could treat all its people as worthy of the American dream. That's what I'm fighting for.

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sleepydistrict01•

Claiming your corner of the country is the American way. By claiming the American flag along with the BLM flag, you're creating the America that you want to see. An America where Black Lives Matter. Displaying the American flag with the BLM flags shows neverous folks that you're not trying to tear down the nation. You're trying to bring people together.

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cosmoblot•

malcolm x once said, “... the Negro Revolution is no revolution because it condemns the system & then asks the system that it has condemned to accept them into their system. That’s not a revolution—a revolution changes the system, it destroys the system & replaces it with a better one.“

if we agree with this sentiment, then wouldnt sporting the american flag be us asking for acceptance into this oppressive system?

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SirHartier•

I love Brother Malcolm, however, just as in the movement of 1960s, all activists have different interpretations. Dr. King had flags flying during his protests.

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cosmoblot•

guess it’s just a matter of different ideologies then

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SirHartier•

Yeah I agree man

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3507321C•

I agree completely and I would take it a step further and say that BLM should co-opt the Gadsden Flag as well. "Don't tread on me" is the sentiment that started the movement. Call out the hypocrisy of those that claim to be libertarians, yet support the broken policing system that we have.

Edit: Also consider voting for Jo Jorgensen

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Philitian•

Edit: Also consider voting for Jo Jorgensen

The libertarians only want to further privatize healthcare and education, and they also oppose social security and public services. They are not a step forward.

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3507321C•

The government is inherently corrupt. The less we have of it, the better.

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Philitian•

That's a really bad principle to go by. Politicians that claim to be against "big and corrupt government" often use that mentality to excuse shifting power from the public sector to private corporations. That means no public healthcare, no postal service, and significantly less funding for public education. If you think publicly elected officials are corrupt, just wait until you hear about the fraud, laundering, and wage theft that business executives are capable of.

The government is only as corrupt as the officials we elect, and the forces compromising it are most often lobbyists and business interests that have the politicians in their pockets. Libertarianism only gives further power to those same business interests. Any libertarian president would be a disaster for accelerating inequality, climate change, and neglecting impoverished communities.

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DeadOnTheDownbeat•

You misspelled Howie Hawkins

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drakethecat25•

My neighbor up the street has a double sided BLM/American Flag and it really struck me when I first saw it because I've grown to automatically write off and associate people who sport the American flag with racists and extremists honestly but to do that discredits and dishonors the very people who've built and died for this country and those who are fighting and protesting and working and volunteering and teaching and doing countless other amazing things daily to improve living in America. To me it sends a unifying message and that America belongs to more than just the hateful racist folks.

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MavetheGreat•

Very much agree and have been hoping for this for some time.

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V4ult_G1rl•

I've been thinking about how sad it is that I automatically assume anyone waving a flag on the street, or with one on their car or house, is somebody I won't get along with. I totally support reclaiming it. Remind everyone that we're all Americans that want the best for our country. There's nothing un-American about protesting and asking for a better America.

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DuppyBrando19•

I’m honestly not sure about this.

The US has been the biggest imperialist power in the world post industrial revolution. For me to list all the problems that the US has caused domestic and foreign would be a list so long it will make your head spin. That only includes the things that we know about too.

The phrase “liberty and justice for all” sounds great, but when has this country ever practiced these beliefs to every member of society? It’s not like oppression of Black people started some time after the constitution was written. POC have been marginalized in the US since the country’s inception. The words written and said by the founding fathers are hollow, because the institutions upheld by this government are based on some fake idea of liberal meritocracy. Why should anyone uphold these ideals? When have they ever been fair or just for every member of society?

I don’t think it’s as simple as carrying the US flag during BLM protests and flying it along side black liberation imagery. BLM isn’t just fighting for police reform, it’s fighting for better rights for Black people in every avenue. Political, legal, professional, educational, social, and cultural equality. Will the people in power really let you come in and reform all these institutions without any resistance or at least slander? What American values actually align with the things that BLM is fighting for? You can say something vague like “liberty for all”, but like I’ve said, when has the US ever actually embraced “liberty for all”?

All the things I’ve talked about and I haven’t even got into the horrors that the US has caused abroad. Senseless wars, trade tariffs that have damaged economies, backed coups in countries that didn’t need them, drained countries of natural resources, intervened in foreign elections, diplomacy with another imperialist countries, etc.

In truth, I really don’t want to align myself with this country as it stands and has stood. People may not like me saying this, but I don’t understand how you can be an American patriot in good faith.

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electricmink•

I think it all boils down to whether you see the flag as a symbol for the ideals the country pretends to embrace, or a symbol for what the country has actually done....and after the shit America has done, I can definitely see why it's hard for many to look at the flag and think "liberty and justice for all".

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trendybarbarian•

True patriotism comes from those who challenge autocratic institutions. It’s what our forefathers did. Blanket and blind patriotism, practiced by typical counter protesters, is more damaging to our democracy than calling for progressive change.

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Al_Obama•

Our founding fathers founded, upheld, and reinforced autocratic institutions.

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anonymous_being•

A number of Black people have told me that the American flag in general doesn't rouse positive feelings and how it represents a country that betrayed Black lives.

I understand OP's suggestion though.

My question is, what do the Black members of this group think? Black Lives Matter flags with American flags or just Black Lives Matter flags?

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MichelleUprising•

The American empire is a despicable plague on the world and the people of all nations would be better off without it.

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NiceToExtremists•

Hi friend. I understand that you're upset that America has so many problems, especially in regards to our militaristic police force and imperialism. But many of us want to improve the country we live in, rather than burn it to the ground. I hope you come to realize the rhetoric in your comment is harmful to those goals. Stay positive and optimistic, and we can create a better country for Americans, and in turn pass those positive changes on to the surrounding world. I hope you have a great day!

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chicken-and-beer•

Username checks out

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StihlHead460•

Idiot.

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Skullmaggot•

So, the American flag is a loaded symbol that has a history of both oppression and liberty. I personally think it should be co-opted to append its meaning to one of reconciliation and building bridges, but it is also understandable that many people hate the falsehoods of America and what the flag represents.

But, to maybe illustrate reconciliation, I’m thinking that people could simultaneously wave and burn the flag, wave it for its ideals and burn it for its evils. (I don’t mean waving burning flags, I mean wave some American flags and burn some other American flags together as a symbolic gesture.)

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Alt_Panic•

Wouldn't that send a bit of a mixed message?

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Skullmaggot•

It’s entirely a mixed message since the United States is a mixed message.

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pstinger•

Don't burn the American Flag. You'll probably make more people angry rather than getting your message across. I agree with the sentiment, and you have every right to burn the flag in protest, just keep in mind that it may hurt your message more than help it.

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Skullmaggot•

Probably, as people focus on the burning. I’m thinking the burning can be patriotic, as a way of recognizing where we’ve wronged.

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cch10902•

The intended message is not always the received message

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Skullmaggot•

Correct. It’d still be a problem.

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RefugeZam•

Rather than burning it, you could fly it upside down. That’s a signal for times of destress/danger.

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trendybarbarian•

I would suggest the inverted flag next to an upright one. Inversion is a call for assistance due to crisis. Burning is a strong statement that will never be accepted by many people, especially on the side in which we are attempting to influence.

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Skullmaggot•

Sure, inversion is okay, but there are still people that feel a bit more strongly averse. I was hoping to be inclusive.

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mari3•

Historically America's liberty has stood for the liberty of rich landowners above others. If you want to use the American flag I would use it in the context of "this is my country too" and not because the American flag supposedly stands for liberty. Since this liberty has always been the liberty of the ruling class.

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Skullmaggot•

True, but there is also the intent of liberty for all. There is the ideal of liberty and its failing execution.

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Maybe carry it upside down to show America’s in distress

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SirHartier•

Yeah true, but a lot of folks don’t know their flag code so they’ll probably interpret it the wrong way. I always carry mine right side up during protest.

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SirHartier•

I wear my BLM gear alongside carrying my flag all the time! 🙌🏾💪🏾🇺🇸

On second thought, we should start taking the symbols that fascist originally took from our ideas of liberty and freedom for all.

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darlingdandelion6•

Agreed! My husband and I just bought both a BLM and American flag to hang on our home. We want to show that supporting black americans is patriotic.

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This is a great idea. I'm white and BLM has opened my eyes hugely. I'm also patriotic as hell and believe that BLM is now a proud part of British and American history.

The flag and BLM are great symbols of what the world can be.

I will happily wave a flag and raise a fist!

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I think it would definitely be intereting to see how it would be perceived by the media. Especially since right-wing malitia groups who cover themselves in stars and stripes are always spoken about as misguided patriots and not the dangerous extremist groups they really are

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-sunnydaze-🏆•

i painted an art that i do solo protests with at my local city central park. Its got my version of the confederate flag on it

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