Source
butsuonChieftain•

Did you remember to include that Bone Offering lost 25% effectiveness, which includes less block chance? You'll need more investment to hit that level of spell block.

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

Yes, I added the 25% reduced effectiveness in POB to come up with the new block percentages. So the nerfs hit us 3 times:

  • lower block w mistress of sacrifice

  • lower life recovery with mistress of sacrifice

  • lower damage reduction w glancing blows.

I'll be having a look whether I can get more eHP going hybrid. Might be more robust against 1-hit kills while less robust against sustained hits. Generally it's one hit kills which kill me anyway.

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butsuonChieftain•

With hybrid you can also get ES and life both on block, which will cover you for sustained hits, making it not much of a nerf at all.

If we're being fair it really should just get changed to evade or dodge chance.

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

True. The %life and/or %ES shields could still contribute significantly. Downside is not dual wielding convoking wands and currently it feels like I'll need both for damage. EDIT: And I have to say these calculations confirmed that a nerf was needed. I know it was good but did not realize it was that much eHP for basically no investment.

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

I had a look to the impact of Mistress of sacrifice and glancing blow nerfs on the eHP of my league starter. Calculations attached but assuming you had 75/72 block and 6500 life before, the impact on eHP is: 1 hit kills: 2200/2400 less eHP 5 hit kills: 3500/3800 less eHP

EDIT: Added Rumi's concoction calculations. Less impact then I expected. EDIT2: The 1hit eHP is somewhat of an overestimation and the actual expected value over a longer period of time. If you get hit for 6500k+ and Glancing blows does not proc, you do die.

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Narrow_Offer144•

Wouldnt you still go for cap block? or is this calculation to a specific build you play?

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

This calculation is for a specific build I intend to play as league starter. I just added a calculation with Rumi's concoction which would go for max block. Impact less than expected, 800eHP.

I'm currently considering ditching block altogether and go for a hybrid build. Although 2000eHP for 6 skills points (4 glancing blow, 2 for spell block nodes) might be too good to pass up even after the nerfs.

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Narrow_Offer144•

Yeah so how i see it, before it was 50% "less Damage taken" 75% of the Time, so if you add it up to 100% up time which obviously isnt possible cause block cap, but for the sake of the numbers, that would mean you have a dmg reduction of 37.5% 100% of the time, now you have with new glancing 26,25% dmg reduction 100% of the time. I know its not very practical but kinda shows that its still viable and lessens the chance of a one shot as long as you block it i guess. Even with mistress nerfed, you can still get recover on block ( unless they do something to it in patch notes) In the end for shield based characters glancing is just to utilise the recover on block. And as you stated, find 6 points on the tree that give you 2000 EHP, there arent many options

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KaylinCho•

what is ur league starter mate?

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

Was planning on going Skeleton mages. I've played pretty much all summoners builds over the years and that is one of the last remaining check boxes :) Now having a look whether I can get it robust enough. If not, RF is also still on the "to play" list and just got easier to league start.

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KaylinCho•

I think im gonna start phys skellis into cariongolems gl

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SmthIcanNvrHave•

Ya, GB is for procing on block effects now, that's about it. And those don't really save you vs big hits, not sure why they want everyone to die more often.

Best form of defense vs bosses is to kill them before they hit you, not really a fan of how hard it is to be tanky.

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ewalluisWitch:carbonphry_witch:•

I think that want you to invest into block if you want to block. One jewel, rumis and large thread of hope to get glancing blows for 1 point (a bit more since you grab the jewel socket) is not actually a big investment into arguably the strongest defense.

Like you stated block is for blocking and GB is for procing on block. IIRC reckoning is getting buffed. It’s just one skill but it could be enough of a reason to pick GB.

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SmthIcanNvrHave•

Ya, but even with GB people die all the time. I bet the average level 94 softcore player with GB had over 50 deaths in harvest. There isn't exactly a lack of deaths in poe. Look at how many stopped playing HC over the years, POE at one point had more HC than SC players.

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ewalluisWitch:carbonphry_witch:•

At the same point in time most HC players and streamers were condescending vegans. Oh, you don’t play hc? You must be a noob and a bad player.

I would play with 2-3 friends. We didn’t have that much time to play. Beating campaign would take us about 5 days. What are we supposed to do when one person dies? I switched to sc for this reason not because we didn’t have glancing blows.

If you have watched highlights from recent racing gauntlet with those insane damage mods and less res then you would know that getting divine flesh, glancing blows + flasks active you could tank a8 die beam and barely feel it. Or even better Uber Elder circle explosion. People usually die to being stupid, leveling, lag or some barely visible degen on the ground. Builds that didn’t go block or GB die to porcupines

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SmthIcanNvrHave•

Ya, just going to have to disagree with most of that. If your friends had glancing blows, maybe they wouldn't have died? And the first chinese race ( without harvest ) no one really accomplished anything. You can't really base things on harvest. And Sirus doesn't hit nearly as hard as some other boss's/monsters, especially when designing a build 100% around him. Being able to design builds to do such things, should be doable. Also, steelmage the guy who wins or gets top 3 everytime, doesn't use glancing blows right? hes a max block glad.

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

I agree. Doing this calculation showed just how much eHP Glancing blows provided for minimal investment. I mean, I took 1 block node (2 skill points) and pathed to Glancing Blows (4 skill points). 6 skill points for about 6keHP.

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Barobor•

How does GB increase your by that much eHP? I am not really sure I understand your calcs. Do you assume you don't block with GB?

In theory old GB alone does nothing to your eHP. What it does do is decrease the variance. New GB is a nerf to your eHP. Now if we add on block effects there are some changes to your eHP, but they aren't 6k eHP.

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

For single hits it's indeed more variance reduction rather than increased eHP. If you would get hit for 6.5k+ and do not block, you die. The calculation here was meant to calculate the EV-eHP.

On average, you survive a single hit of ~10.5k:

  • If you block (75% of the time), you can take 6.5=*2+445 = 13445

  • If you do not block (25% of the time), you can take 6.5k EV ~=10.5k

For multiple small hits you do gain actual eHP - when blocking you gain life on block which works like damage reduction.

EDIT: Disclaimer: could be errors in here. Took some shortcuts to get a ballpark.

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SilnoirSaboteur•

its probably way better to skip glacing blows and take a few block nodes and be capped at least for attack block
spell block me also be possible needs more investment tho which is fine, i still think necro is freaking broken

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NeoLearnerOPNecromancer•

I somewhat agree if you go staff or shield. Going bone offering, investing in block nodes and having a Rumi's concoction still gets you good block. When dual wielding wands it doesn't really work out as there are not a lot of block nodes to take. But sounds like a decent trade-off, damage vs defense.

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