r/l4d2•
imelman

My beef with the Last Stand update.

Look, I know, its recent, and stuff like that, however, I, like many people in discussion forums, as well MY experience with it, I'm honestly, not too appalled with it, especially as a mod creator, since it broke Witch model mods for example, as well others, and there's many reasons why:

The new campaign is just 2 maps, length wise, its Crash Course, yet another rushed campaign that feels like Cold Stream, somehow being even worse than those two, ranging from finale having a total of 7-8 medkit type items(which feels overblown, especially in versus), bad AI pathing on watchtower in 2nd map, which results in zombies/survivors not getting inside. None of survivors on new map have campaign specific dialogue, just generic ones from other maps! Those are the examples, but I think there's more.

For new additions, like CSS weapons, melee weapons however, due to how weak they are, as the shovel/pitchfork have worse hit detection than normal melees, too big and strange compared to others, and also just worse than fire axe or anything for that matter, while CSS weapons are very, very subpar, being worse than normal guns they are supposed to be alternatives for, but with pathetic DPS, you are just opening yourself for more special and common attacks. And in versus, the fact they can replace an otherwise good gun(expect knife and SG552 for M16, since they are practically the same thing aside from being faster and having a scope), can ruin your speedrunning/organized runs.

The new animations, while nice to fix outdated ones, some are really out of consistency/place, like the magnum, which feels like the animator was looking at Call Of Duty skins and thought "hey, that fits for a game", while it looks too goofy and just disrespectful. Other changes include M16 getting a red line in its magazine, as if its some kind of modded server. The worst ones are CSS guns, since they broke the left-handed replacements for them resulting in left-handed guns, though its good to see that you don't have to model them left-handed now. But using outdated models and textures? Even with enough time to do so? I see no excuse for that.

The supposed focus of this update was of course, the campaign, but with how short it is, and comparing to how MANY survival maps were added, well, let me tell you the truth, while survival play rates increased with the update, its still LOWER than coop and versus. And even better, no one plays scavenge at all! This means in a week or a month, everyone's going back to campaign and versus with NO ONE playing survival! Aside for achievements with friends or alone, of course...

If the update was just new maps, fixes and stuff, but NOT adding stuff that mods already do, like the survivor anims that do weird reviving animation, reanimating weapons to look like some Counter-Strike game as opposed to just fixing them, or just letting the users to pick the mods for that.

Other weird things - now The Passing golf club is now appearing in many more maps, to point its more common, where you can have a katana-like weapon easier than before, and The Passing newer voice acting that was previously available via modded servers, is now official everywhere - expect the character grunts when meleeing, which is still mod only, apparently.

Using vocalizers generic lines, including death screams now has a delay now - which takes apparently like, 10-15 seconds between each along with 3-5 second delay on everything? The only ones not affected are campaign specific lines, like The Passing lines, which you can still spam but at lower rate. Its good to see there's less spam, but it makes doing funny things less inciting. Also, Rochelle is somehow even worse, should just add the newer lines as a mix to originals, not replacing everything and thinking it will improve everything. Like, when you friendly fire someone, they normally yell a general line or a character specific one, but now they ONLY speak the character specific one, which makes it not look good if the character who got shot couldn't see the attacker by the time they got hit.

"By community, for community" - When the changes affect versus in a negative way, and normal users as well, I now understand why good developers only let modders suggest, but never add things that will piss people off with the difference in professionalism. It's like trying to force people to play survival/scavenge with so many new maps yet not understanding what people actually want.

My initial thoughts on that update were initially meh. And somehow, certain changes/issues make it worse and confusing. But still meh. Expect the actual threats to game balance and long-term lifespan and people's acceptance of the game as a whole.

Posted Sep 25, 2020, 6:14 AM UTC

512
GreyBigfoot•

The voice lines is my biggest gripe. It seems like they replaced a lot of them instead of just adding them to the random mix.

14
-LeBlanc-•

I hate the new laugh voice lines and i hate the new delays. Let me spam dammit

7
[deleted]•

For real

0†
InternetEnterprise•

I was honestly expecting the CSS weapons would get an overhaul considering there's several mods on the workshop that basically did that for them.

The new melee weapons, after getting used to them, are honestly just bad, very bad. Hit registration on the shovel is slightly less consistent than say the guitar even, and the pitch fork is a wild card, either you hit the common or not thanks to it's wild animations (and wild hit registration as well).

The update is a step in the right direction, I'm just hoping that this is just the first of several updates for L4D2.

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1
lo0u•

The campaign was disappointing, especially when you see mod campaigns like Day Break, which are long.

I was honestly surprised when it ended, because I didn't check to see how many chapters it had, because of how excited I was.

Idk, I'm probably a minority, but the campaign is what I play the most in this game, either singleplayer or with friends. I like Survivor, but just not as much as the Campaigns.

I still enjoyed and had fun with the update for what it brought. Last Stand on Realism Expert was challenging and it was very satisfying to get that achievement in the end. I just wish it wasn't so short.

5
[deleted]•

I think they should have looked into implementing a second map to compensate for Last Stand being short. Maybe Precinct, Suicide Blitz, IHM, you know, the classics.

1

Back to School, I Hate Mounrains

2
mzrook•

The new map was lacking the luster I was expecting. It was short like you said, like when we got to the lighthouse I was thinking 'that's it..?'.

4
imelmanOP•

I don't understand why people classify valid criticism as "against the narrative". What, people want L4D2 to have all changes, including those that can potentially unbalance or change it for the worse?

I'm not saying everything is bad. I'm pointing out the things that have problems, which is the main point. If you have forgotten, I do like the new zombies, once I adjust newer mods for them of course, as well most importantly, fixes, but not the additions I have explained.

And remember, survival/coop players are not the only people. There's versus folk, and a good amount of them had problems regarding newer weapons that affect the balance.

3†
PatheticLimp•

Dude I had the same thoughts. I’m so upset with what they have done. They said the campaign wasn’t long as they wanted as the ran out of time. Then why is the whole update based around it heavily advertised for the campaign but it’s not fun. They tried to fix things which wasn’t broken now the weapons look terrible. Some are fine maybe even better but some just nosed dived in quality I don’t understand. The hunting rifle gives me a headache, the shovel melee looks amazing and the sound of it passing through the air sounds nice but it uses the night stick hitting sound effect when it makes contact with the zombies just a huge disconnect with the weapon. I’m not sure who animated the pitch fork but dam it’s so bay animated and the way you use the fork to attack is so stupid. Who tries to slash with a pitch fork or uppercut with it. It’s a jabbing weapon. I honestly want this update reverted as the servers are fried so not worth it. Wasted so much time with things no one wanted and can’t even finish the campaign fully so they filled it with time wasters like turning generations on that’s scatterd around is just dumb to make it feel longer. I’m so disappointed for giving these guys my attention I feel stupid for thinking this was going to be good.

3†
DrMowz•

I'm just having fun going through the campaigns with the CS weapons, new weapon models, and character lines that sound like people instead of robots that spam loud noises and funny words.

2
PatheticLimp•

And the css weapons barely changed at all and didn’t even replace the sounds with higher quality ones huge disconnect from everything else.

1†
Netr1usGoddamn I miss burger tank•

The whole update start to finish was like 9 months. Did they change gun models? I didn't notice since I got my own mods replacing them.

I didn't expect much with the map, only thought it'd be longer, it's shorter than crash course. It looks good and keeps up with that OG aesthetic from original L4D maps.

The shovel and pitchfork are meh after a playthrough, the pitchfork in particular sometimes seems to miss or hit just one zombie infront of you.

And fuck versus lmao. I'll visit a nuclear waste compound if I want some toxic vibes

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