Cypher and killjoy nerfs...
I have a couple of gripes about the latest nerfs. I don't really play killjoy so I can't say much on that part, but cypher has had a pretty big nerf that doesn't make sense to me. I'm not one to normally complain about updates and I understand that I might not be thinking about this clearly so I'm open to hear other opinions on this.
1. If cypher places his tripwire at any point during the round and picks it back up, the tripwire does not carry over to the next round.
The problem is that cypher is expected to set up his defenses before the round starts. Usually cypher places both tripwires every single round on defense. But then the enemy team doesn't even go to his site, so he picks up his tripwires and rotates... He never used his tripwires and they weren't destroyed... But now we need to spend another $400 to buy those tripwires again... Every single round. In my opinion, this completely ruins his economy. He didn't use his tripwires and they served no purpose once they were picked up, so I don't see why we should have to buy them over and over again and just hope they get used instead of being a waste of money.
2. Tripwires become useless after cypher dies. The wires are not only made completely visible, but they also don't even work anymore.
I hear people say that it's not fair for cypher and killjoy to have utility working for them after they die, but cypher and killjoy aren't the only ones... Sage's slow orbs and wall, all the molotovs, all the smokes, sova arrows, raze bot, and viper poison all are effective after the agent dies. Sure they are only affective for a short while after death, but they can still prevent a defuse and can even kill enemies after death. Cypher tripwires only revealed people and stunned them if they didn't break the tripwire quick enough. If we have to nerf cypher and killjoy, can't we make the utility last for a short time after death instead of instantly being useless?
I don't care if cypher or killjoy get nerfed, I just don't understand these nerfs specifically. I hope the devs reconsider these changes, or at the very least tweak them a bit.
Posted Nov 6, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC
Id say im ok with cypher not being able to keep tripwires that he picks back up. Because even if they weren't triggered you're still getting a good amount of use out of them. As long as they are placed suitably they essentially let you know that no enemy has passed by them as long as they are up. Being able to keep the wires means that you can get all this use out of them and then also get to re-use them the flowing round for free, despite having gotten your money's worth out of them.
As for devices turning off after he is killed I'm not as certain of being the best change to make but it does still make sense since those wires are a great help, and when other agents die, that's it for their ability usage so it brings cypher in line in that aspect, since otherwise cypher dying isn't as much of an issue since he would still be watching 2 spots with his wires from the grave. mabe have the wires linger for a bit longer before they become visible and turn off but I'm not certain either way.
But it does still have the downside of giving cypher a more passive playstyle while he still has wires that haven't been triggered so he doesn't lose them, so it might be better to see if there's any potential alternative to this change.
I can understand that point of view. It does provide information that enemies haven't passed that point (other than omen or maybe Jett). I really want to know what high rank cypher mains think about this change. I used to only play cypher back when I was plat1 (before my epic derank spree) but I don't think plat1 is high enough to say how serious this affects his economy or his play style.
Personally, I don't even see why they felt they had to nerf cypher at all... Did people think he was over powered?
Well I'm not sure exactly but I'd say it's a decent issue at all except the lowest ranks probobly, because with the wires that got the biggest nerf, cypher would essentially shut down flanks simply by existing. Since while you can go for sneaky extra low wires that may not be noticed and stepped on, if you place them at the right height, as long as there isn't any slope or objects to allow for a quieter but still quite noticeable bypass of the wire with a jump. The only way to bypass wires placed well is for specific agents abilities to be used and they will still make sound such as omen teleporting or Jett launching herself over it. So the only way they could be bypassed unnoticed is with those movement abilities and if nobody happens to be around to hear them,
This kills all ability to sneak up from a route that has a wire in it since destroying the wire or making noise is unavoidable with correct placement.
And for the other slightly nerfed ability the camera, if placed in a good sneaky spot it can potentially go completely unnoticed and get a lot of intel on the enemy without them realising it, unlike any other intel ability where it is very obvious you've been spotted, such as getting flashed by Skye or sova's arrow and drone revealing you. By making the camera reveal itself on death it gives more counterplay there so that any good hiding spot cypher has used can be noticed and dealt with more easily in the following rounds rounds if cypher gets himself killed
All of this was enough that in previous competitive events you would see that cypher had a pickrate of over 90% but Im not sure if this would still be the case now after these nerfs
Actually his pick rate is much lower.I have looked at the most recent 1.10 tournaments and his pick rate was/is between 50% and 70%. He was the 4th most picked agent (or 5th in few cases).
These are the two biggest (NA) but data on other tournaments is in line with these:https://www.thespike.gg/events/stats/agents/first-strike-north-america-nsg-tournament-open-qualifier/247
https://www.thespike.gg/events/stats/agents/first-strike-north-america-nsg-tournament-closed-qualifier/248
So they don't like 90% pick rate? He never felt essential the way sage did for a long time. He is just very useful for information. I would understand if people had a hard time dealing with cypher, but I feel like cypher is so easy to just rush and kill quickly. Again, I'm low elo, so I may be wrong here.
Well it's just as I mentioned he can just completely shut down flanking with his very existence, information is a very powerful tool. An example would be the B site of bind. With one of the 2 routes leading to it having a wire placed in it, cypher and whoever else is there with him could just ignore the wired route completely. Like I how I would place a wire in that long corridor by the teleport so that me and whoever else is with me could be ready to shoot anyone that walked through the other route as soon as as we saw them. I can just completely ignore that corridor until I'm alerted that it's been triggered or destroyed. And then when it is destroyed I know to immediately back off since the position I was holding has just become far more risky.
Another extra detail is that if the wire triggered before being destroyed then that can also just be a free wall bang kill or from inside a smoke that may have been put on your position
Id say the main reason he didn't reach a full 100% in those events like sage, was because sage was just incredibly overpowered before the series of nerfs that brought her to her current weak state that dropped all the way to 0% in a more recent event I believe. So he's not quite 100% but still incredibly powerful and important to with the incredibly high pickrate reflecting that.
A lot of it is that him and killjoy got to freely impact the game with next to no active play by the players. Putting trips and turret to cover flank early round was basically a no skill or thought involved play, now if you want to do that your required to lurk and play around your util. Having them disabled on death means that you can’t just go hold another site with your kit up somewhere else with no risk. Especially in pro play they would stack 4 to 5 on one site and leave cypher util on the other site to catch rotates even if he died. Now you can’t do that, and it keeps the idea of locking down a point of the map as an agent and player, not just a passive kit