Source
r/medicine•
Get_This

Minor drama on twitter when prominent Cardiologist makes cringy "joke" about women in cardiology.

So Dr Anish Koka, a cardiologist (not mentioning the hospital, because I don't want to be sending a mob or something) made a pretty misogynist/transphobic "joke" (in his terms) about women in cardiology.

Since then, all hell has broken loose on twitter, with many key women and men speaking out against this, including Dr Martha Gulati and Dr Rasha Al-Lamee. He offered some half hearted sorry to offend you apology, and has since deleted his Twitter.

I don't know if there are many cardio people here, but I've been listening to him and his podcast since quite some time, and here's some background on him just to know where he comes from. He leans heavily to the right when it comes to social issues, and routinely has brought on guests that disparage/discuss issues such as

"doctors should stay in their lane",

"racial inequalities in medical healthcare delivery are debatable" ,

"diversity in medicine doesn't really help anyone except the ones that got admission as a beneficiary of affirmative action",

"cancel culture is a serious problem but only for the ones leaning right" .

In isolation, none of these podcasts are really 'outright offensive', because they merely tether at the edge of saying these things out explicitly. In context, along with his Twitter comments, they become more relevant. The outrage on twitter, especially cardio twitter which is VERY active and usually very progressive in their ideas, has finally caught up with him.

So here are my questions to you meddit -

  • what do you make of it?

  • what do you think of such people sharing the same workplace as you? (lord knows I have a TON of such people around me)

  • did he deserve the backlash he's getting?

  • the age old question - whether your personal beliefs should allow your professional life to suffer consequences?

  • has social media overexposure been good or bad?

My take is, yes absolutely he deserved to get shit on. He blurted out offensive shit just to get a few RT/likes while being extremely inconsiderate of everyone around him. If I were a female, cis or trans, I would be EXTRMELY uncomfortable working under him considering how he views women in cardiology. You have every right to say whatever the fuck you want in your personal capacity as long as you don't let it dictate your professional life. Just be prepared to face the consequences of your actions when you do. Ironic how he kept trying to poke the hornet's nest by crying about an imaginary cancel culture out to get doctors who speak on social issues, while it was his blatant misogyny and transphobia that got to him.

Posted Dec 5, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

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Clean-Elk9611DO•

One of the first things I was told in medical school was “The time to start acting like a physician was yesterday.”

Immediately deleted all of my social media accounts. This type of shit is what Reddit is for

89
Get_ThisOPMD•

There is a large number of doctors (grifters?) who are incredibly vocal about their personal beliefs. It wouldn't be an issue except that they're doing it from what is otherwise their 'professional' twitter account (work in bio, degrees in bio/handles etc, usually engage in professional work/field discussions). Surprisingly, nearly all of them have come out crying about the 'cancel culture'. It's so frustrating.

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RockstarRaspberry•

Screw him. Posts like these are exactly why I (female) feel inadequate to my male counterparts. I’m in the 1st quartile in my school, rocked my boards, LoRs, etc, yet every time I get an interview there’s a small voice inside me that says I only got it bc I put “female” as my gender.

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vbwrgMD•

Oh Jesus am I sorry to hear this.

I know that pesky "little voices" don't go away just because they're stupid and wrong (and you know it!), but perhaps this anecdote will help you re-frame your feelings about potentially being a "diversity hire."

In the 90s, I ran into an old orthopod colleague, one of the dinosaurs. His response to my polite "how are you doing?" was an extended rant about how his department was being destroyed: the new director didn't care about patients or training good surgeons, he only cared about picking "affirmative action candidates." The main focus of his ire was a Asian-American woman whom he felt was hideously under-qualified for their residency program. "She never would have been accepted back when we were still a meritocracy."

"She's that bad, huh? How crappy were her grades and boards?"

"No, she was top of her class, best boards of anyone in the program. But none of that matters for surgery. Surgery is all about the hands. I'll take a dimwit with great hands over a genius klutz any day and twice on Sunday!"

"So she's super-smart but lacks the coordination or dexterity for surgery? Sounds like she'd do great in a medical specialty. You could make some calls, help her land softly in a top program..."

"No, she's not going anywhere. [Program director] thinks she'll be a great hand surgeon."

"Well then her hands can't be that bad!"

"Or he's just into the Chinese chicks. She might be OK as a hand-job [wink]. I think her extracurricular was some type of Chinese needlepoint. She can probably do delicate, girly work like hand."

"So what's the problem? Sounds like you guys got a good hand surgeon!"

"But that's not what ortho is about! Before all the women and Chinese invaded, we were the tough guys, the jocks! We didn't pull our punches. That's what made us good surgeons."

"So you want to keep ortho just a bunch of white jocks?"

"Don't do that! You're making me sound racist! You know I helped [name], a black kid, get into [med school]? Now he'd be a great surgeon. He was one of the best receivers [local high school football coach] had ever seen. I don't care if someone is black, white, or purple, but they've got to fit in with ortho."

​

I've condensed this conversation (which was nearly thirty years ago) a great deal, but it's all entirely accurate. You see the moving target: first, she wasn't qualified. Then, her qualifications were stellar, but those qualifications were irrelevant. Then she was actually good on the relevant qualification, but in a way that didn't fit the culture...

Don't look at affirmative action the way it's opponents do - if you do that, they win. Affirmative action is not a means for under-qualified applicants to "steal" the positions of the more qualified. When a department is ordered from on high to diversify, it's usually because the dinosaurs running the department are incapable of seeing the qualifications of people who aren't like them.

I don't know what your specialty is, but in most departments, women are no longer rare creatures and there aren't actually any "bonus points" for being female. And if you're in a specialty where women are badly under-represented, then any "bonus points" you get for being female are more than offset by all the ways that people are deducting points from your score for being female. A male applying to ortho with great grades/boards is "a genius with great hands and great brains," while a female with better scores is "a grind, some ivory-tower pussy who obviously has shit for hands." They see "great hands" and "amazing surgical potential" in the guy who catches a football, but not in the gal who twirls a baton or does intricate needlepoint. (Do girls still twirl batons? Sorry, I'm probably old enough to be your grandmother...)

It's not just anecdotes. For example, the resume studies, where researchers send out identical resumes, some with "John" and others with "Jane" (or some with "John" and others with "Jamal") prove pretty conclusively that white people and men are given opportunities that equally qualified women and minorities are not.

So even if you're "only there because of affirmative action," so what? I'm sure there were positions that I would not have been offered if it weren't for affirmative action. That doesn't mean I wasn't the best person for the job! It just means that the old boys club needed an affirmative-action shove to do the right thing rather than diminish my qualifications on account of my vagina.

77
Damn_Dog_Inappropes•

That doctor had no idea he's why affirmative action exists.

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RockstarRaspberry•

Thank you so much for this 😭

10
fanofswords•

Thank you, I also needed to hear that.

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ripstep1•

A great argument for ending affirmative action in medicine.

I say that as a URM.

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michael_harariMD•

If you say something offensive then don't be surprised when people are offended. It's a corollary to "play stupid games win stupid prizes"

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Get_ThisOPMD•

It's absolutely astonishing how much lacking they are in self awareness.

"Yes I said stupid shit intentionally but cAnCeL CuLtUrE iS tHe rEaL pRoBLeM guys"

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ecklipticPulmonary/Critical Care - Interventional•

What did he expect the reaction to be?

27
marticcrnCritical Care RN•

Stupid is as stupid does. My guess is this guy also doesn’t listen to women as closely as he should, leading to delayed response to changes in his patients’ conditions.

21
PGS13•

Ironically, I'm trans (nonbinary) and applied cardiology this cycle and didn't match. None of my mentors or PD could figure out why. For some reason, I don't think it helped.

18
seagreen835Medical Student•

I come to reddit to avoid twitter drama. This sort of shit happens every other day over there.

15
Get_ThisOPMD•

Be that as it may, it is not a mutually exclusive thing. This conversation is worth having.

11
ifuckedivankatrump•

A lot of comments here ate made that are very similar to his. There’s no avoiding people with crap but fervent ideologies.

3
bahhamburgerMD•

Most people are more likable when they don’t open their mouths. Any professional who wants to cultivate a public persona should have some idea on how to conduct themselves in a public manner. Or stick to the Parler crowd and do whatever they want.

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IntensiveNP - Hospitalist•

Real smooth brain move. What was he expecting?

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victorkiloalphaMD- General Surgery Resident•

So he got chased off of twitter for making an offensive joke... who cares?

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j_itorMSc in Medicine|Psychiatry (Europe)•

I'm not really certain "treat applicants with respect" is a progressive idea at heart and I do think most of us are perfectly able to get behind treating our colleagues with respect and dignity.

In general medical professionals should not have easily identifiable twitter, facebook or reddit accounts where they talk about social or political issues if they don't want to have to defend them later on no matter their stance on the subjects, progressive people have gotten the boot before, too.

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20MD20MD PGY-1 IM•

nah, most of the medical professionals who do have easily identifiable social media use it to virtue signal and repeat commonly held beliefs amongst their colleagues. They talk about these issues all the time but they just have to never go against the grain.

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[deleted]•

I will give you a story about mocking patients. At a UC health facility, there was a young woman who was searching for continued care after dealing with some constipation, most likely induced by stress. This woman, finally able to function after year of therapy, expressed the desire to get off cathartics. The adverse effects were causing vomiting, several times a day, bloating, weight gain and effected QOL where she was bed ridden. The GI she saw refused to see her medical records, yet, promised to help. The GI ordered test, after test, following the algothim that has replaced the human brain, and refused to listen to the patient. She was told to take up to 4 laxatives a day, enemas daily, MOM, mirlalx preps, stimulants, and was told not to eat. The more she cried for help, the more the doctor ignored her. The more irritated her colon became due to the extreme gas, distention, increased bowel sounds, the GI told her she was still "impacted". She was told that food is "stuck on the LRQ and if she eats, it wont come out". This led to more vomiting' instead of hearing this patient, the GI told her to do a colonoscopy prep, for 5 days. She finally ended up in the ER, gained over 30 pounds less than a year and figured that death would be better. The GI told her that she has to be on meds daily, that she has an eating disorder, that she is liar. The more she tried to get help the more he ignored her. Medical records/clinical notes, tampered with, changed. She has all this information. All through Epic. The patient tried to see 5 more GIs, only to be told that she, anxious, bulimic, anorexic and a drug seeker who enjoyed laxatives. A year later, MRI showed a cyst on her S2S3. When she asked, she was told that this isn't real. Until she read her MRI and saw the cyst. She has a rectocele, which wasn't there before. She has developed PFD and cant stop using enemas or laxatives. She has been disowned by her family. She is afraid, everyday, that she will have to drink colon preps the rest of her life. She cant sleep, spends everyday thinking about her bowels. She was told to induce diarrhea everyday. She now feels this has to occur. She tried to get help from other doctors, in three states but the medical records are so damaging, no one will help her. That girl is me. I am the one suffering, everyday. I have contacted the Board, the CEO of this health facility, I have over 500 documents, emails, messages and witnesses and no one will help me. I put trust in this horrible doctor. I had survived the worst shooting in America and my body shut down. To be treated the way I was...I cant even explain this. I now have complex PTSD. I do not have a safe place. I will continue to fight until this is taken care of. This "doctor" doesn't represent all doctors, nor does he, or his colleagues, speak for this community. In fact, when other doctors (I am in a new state now) are aware of what occurred, I can sense from their silence that the disgust and disbelief is there. I have heard every excuse from his colleagues, "culture, age, ect" In fact, that just adds more offense to this cycle of hell. For me, this is more than just a tweet, my life is at risk. My body is shutting down and I am terrified. My life and future is nothing more than a colon prep. I have spent everyday, every second fighting to get my life back. I have spent my entire 401K doing this. My family blames me for being a burden. They no longer care to see me. Don't ignore your patients. They deserve better.

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WoodenDragonfly9037•

He's saying there's bias in hiring women, which is true. I'd rather have a male doctor 99/100

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-deepfriar2M3 (US)•

Grow a spine and worry about step instead

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Seis_KLooks at your insides•

no

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20MD20MD PGY-1 IM•

Personally -- I don't think his view is particularly evil. Some people think African Americans have it easier getting into med school, and I think they are correct and my school's admissions reflected that. Some people think Women have it easier getting into Cards -- that's probably true also.

What is probably messed up is assuming any individual woman in cards or african american in med school is there just b/c of their race -- it is statistically possible that they are still otherwise rockstar students/researchers. I think an academic attending openly making these comments, compiled with all of the other comments he made, says it is likely he also treats his students wrong.

Overall though, I think the cancel culture against him is very strong and I think he was stupid to make these kinds of comments because in todays liberal world any open comments about sexuality or gender that isn't mainstream usually gets you destroyed. Feel free to downvote me for saying that but it's the truth

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Throwaway_9494949Medical Student•

Way to make some broad generalizations there

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[deleted]•

I mean it doesn't matter what his views are outside of work. Stop idolizing doctors as the pinnacle of morality and angelic creatures. Doctors are just people that went to medical school. As long as his patients are not harmed by this I'm fine with it.

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Get_ThisOPMD•

He is in an academic post with fellows under him, or at least working with him, including women. Does this kind of an attitude not ring alarm bells? At all?

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[deleted]•

Listen I'm not defending his opinions, just saying he's entitled to it. But yes if it hurts his program he shouldn't post them.

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