Source
r/DualUniverse•
kubi_dev

The current and future economy is sick

Discussion

Updated, with an AMA question/answer, that make me upset even more.

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Its not mine, but current status:

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You want to create a dynamic L core.

- We consider a good miner (fully skilled) to pull 200kl by hours non stop (including some small pause and time to find the node)

- You have 4 miners that are fully agry to mine 8h by day (like a job)

- You need to buy the schematics (~1 370 000 000)- You are selling all the ore to the bot, because it's the only way to do money (12.5 q/l)

- You need 68 days in total of mining divided by 4 miners = 17 days of mining

- You need a dedicated guys to bring the stuff to sell during this 17 days (800kl/h + travel time = full time job)

In conclusion if you exclude all the time to setup the factory and get the ore you need to build the elements. You need 5 person at least for 17 days to start a dynamic L core.

​

If you are lucky, you have enough money to buy the schematics. You have, or will have a lots of money if you have a stockpile of dynamic L core, or space core or anything to sell it (and will be shortage soon and people will buy it at crazy price, if you crash your ship you need that L core and don't care about the price)

So, if you are that guy with huge stockpile, you can make your industry after you learned all the required skills (1 week maybe) and you sold the stocks on the market. Now you are, alone, can do 5 person 8x17 day work (680 hour total) instantly, because you are lucky and you are hoarding.

The "owners" of the market is decided now, before the game launch.

Is it OK?

(I don't think so)

​

Update:

A question and an answer from the 2020.09.10 AMA:

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Question: How are you going to address the fact that some organizations that had members in the Test Server, and were aware of the latest changes ahead of time, Used that insider information to stockpile various endgame items before the patch was announced?

We are going to introduce a much larger public test server soon. And we will keep working with ATV with a different approach that will be more about discussing future evolution ahead of the push in the test server. We want to avoid pushing completely new stuff in production as we have done so far.

So there are some who had time to prepare

  • to mine out the mage nodes before they delete it
  • to produce expensive stuff and make huge stockpile

they earned easy money, we are all fucked.

Posted Dec 10, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC · edited

1423
dr_Octag0n•

Is this game free to play yet?

7
zeus-indy•

This assumes that the only way you make money is selling Ore and people will want to go straight into making these. Perhaps it is more realistic to assume large cores will become rare for a period of time while the economy reboots and people generate wealth through selling lower core items.

4
D119•

Mh you are forgetting that higher tier item have free market, lower tier are tied to bot sell order still present. Last time I checked every market had, for instance, its own S wing sell order, millions of S wing for a price not in line with the new economy.

2
Sabre_One•

This is my take on it as well. All this does is make it so that to own a large core ship is to flex power. XS and S being the peasant class newb stuff, and the M Cores being the most common ships. Our group joined 6 days ago, but before the change we were well on our way to start manufacturing large cores and we didn't even really grind that much.

2
kubi_devOP•

Money comes in in two way: daily reward and market bot buy orders. To make money you can sell ore or you can sell stuff for players. If you dont have industry you cant sell stuff for players, or if you have only cheap xs, s industry you are not making big money.

If you have an L core ship and you are using it, then if you crash and the core is died, then you don't want to replace it? You will buy the over priced L core if you have money for it. There will be demand for L core, always.

0
Psycholusional•

Don't fly an L core if you cant afford it.

Your example in your post is nonsense.

-4
onemanlegion•

Ah yes, I long to play a game where everyone outside of a 30 man org only has hoverboards and we are lorded over by the L core overlords. Brilliant fucking deisgn.

4
[deleted]•

[removed]

-1
ryushihan•

I usually pull 250k an hour but only on nega nodes. In regular hexs its closer to randomly grabbing ores, its maybe 80k. So quadruple your numbers because all my capped meganodes have lost ores.

2
kubi_devOP•

my mega nodes gone, too (more than 10)

I can mine randomly ~100k/hour, so maybe double it, but this calculation is not mine. Its bad anyway.

1
Keejhle•

Solution is easy. Wipe the server

2
Syntechi•

True but id rather not a server wipe until game launch

0
cpcsilver•

Why would you sell ore at very low price to the bots? You're incorrectly assuming that nobody has money to pay for ore anymore. The ore price from before patch will just slightly drop, not completely crash.

Plus, you don't need to produce L core yourself if you don't want to burn your gameplay time for it. Also, you don't need to spend your time just mining. You should consider earning money on a slower pace, or make contacts with other orgs to share products and services. Then, you will be able to get these L cores.

0†
TheDkone•

I think one of the main reasons NQ put in the schematics is because they looked at amount of Q in the game and felt they needed to remove some of it. If I am right about this then that means there is enough Q (or more than enough) in game to circulate through the natural economic cycle. ie.. sale of ore (to other players) through the purchase of finished products. Bot pricing for ore is always going to be rock bottom and probably under valued so that NQ can slow the introduction of Q along with the added benefit of removing a finite resource from the game.

​

If the price of a post-patch widget is now higher to compensate for the cost of the schematic, then I need to increase the price I sell my ore for so I can afford the new widget. I would rather get the widget by selling ore at a higher price than mining more. This is my roundabout way of saying that I agree with you about selling to bots, especially since the market hasn't even come close to stabilizing after the patch. I just don't agree that the price of ore will drop, at least not after the market has stabilized. The key though is not selling to the bots and only selling through sell orders. This will require some patience, but this should be a game you are playing for the long term.

​

If miners acted as a collective we could control the price of ore, but instead we slave to mine a few containers, sell to market bots and complain that it will take forever to be able to afford anything.

4
D119•

They shouldn't have never introduced bots in the first place, the amount of material wasted into bot orders is insane, as the amount of money generated from such dynamic.

2
TheDkone•

They were needed initially. There had to be some way to introduce Q into the economy other than the 100K per day. I am basing this off the current state of the game, missions/ratting is a great way to do it but the game doesn't support any other way to pump Q in.

NQ really needs to hire an economist or two. The economy needs to live on its own and without a semi-healthy functioning economy the game is going to suffer. It seems all they are doing at the moment is using outside influences on the market to try to adjust it and not allowing their organic influences time to see if they work. Organic influence: Component and voxel destruction & removal of alt-f4. Outside influence: market bots & schematics

2
TheRubbishLife•

Assuming people spend their money at the markets the way NQ wants. This update was simply in my opinion to slow game play down so devs could have more time fixing issues and also make a longer algorithm so that orgs can't burn out the game in 3 months subscription. They want people paying over long periods of time so the best way to do that is slow the game down

1
serras_•

Or you know, they could have added some meaningful content, instead of kneecapping the thing people actually enjoyed about the game.

2
kubi_devOP•

The problem is that, there are some people who starts now with a big advantage. I dont care about the L core factory. The economy is sic, its not ballanced. And if the prices going up to 30, then not 680 hour just 200. Oh well, better? Not.

2
cpcsilver•

People will always have an advantage since we don't all start playing the game at the same time and we don't invest the same hours to play.

But, to follow your example, having people already being able to produce L cores will help any other player because you will just need to buy the L core at the market, you won't need to go through the hassle of building an entire industry just to produce it.

So you will be able to save your cash to invest somewhere else, and slowly getting what you need to build bigger ships or factories later.

3
kubi_devOP•

And is it ok, that there are a few people who are dominating the market, because they was lucky and hoarding in the beta? They will dictate the prices. If you want to buy for example an dynamic L core, you have to buy it on their price. And they made nothing to achieve this, just they are lucky. If you want to make that dynamic L core, then you have to work hard. Its not even, its not fair, even for a game.

1
Local-Maintenance894•

Yes, 5 years from now there will be people dominating the market. There will AWALYS BE SOMEONE.

1