r/GoldandBlack•
MayCaesar

On complexity and chaos

This is going to be a bit of a philosophical post, but I hope that for someone this will be a valuable insight into how intellectual-minded people often think.

Having spent over a decade in academia, the primary "breeding ground" of intellectuals, in multiple very different countries, I have noticed some interesting patterns in how people produced in that environment tend to think. One of the interesting patterns which, in my opinion, explains largely why intellectuals tend to be so authoritarian and state-loving in their political views, is their adoration of sophistication. They do not like simple solutions, simple systems, simple rules. They tend to believe that, to achieve a great outcome in something, a very complicated system must be manually developed, with difficult and enormously numerous rules, with mechanisms only the best engineers can craft, etc.

The idea to just leave people alone, to let the market do its thing, to put the government out of most areas of human life - does not appeal to them due to its inherent simplicity. Standing up and walking out sounds much simpler than trying to control everything, to prescribe rules for everything. It is so different from what people in academia typically do, developing sophisticated theories, writing large equations, trying to understand and control the finest elements of any system.

Yet there is a certain contradiction here: in a way, the goal of science is provide as simple a description of everything around us as possible. It is not the most complicated physics theories, for example, that survive; it is those that have the lowest number of assumptions, that have the cleanest and the shortest explanation. Fully according with Occam's Razor principle, scientists seek to simplify everything down to the smallest number of simplest concepts, from which everything else derives. I have always found it puzzling why they do not want to apply the same principle to the political, economical and social systems at large. Why the design of the Large Hadron Collider should be simple enough that any engineer, given enough time, can figure its basic elements out - but the design of the, say, economical system must include countless regulations and restrictions in order to provide the "best outcome".

What I think many intellectuals do not appreciate is that simple systems may lead to complex outcomes. If someone is into anime, I recommend that you watch Beatless, where this theme is explored very well. Closer to the end in one of the scenes the main character ponders on the fact that his (girl)friend, a robot, functions on very simple principles based on responding to her owner in a way that makes him like her, and he, in turn, responds to her in a way that his beliefs tell him is right - and this simple dynamic leads to an incredibly deep relationship. Much like in the Game of Life (check it out; it is a great one you can spend hundreds hours playing around with) one can write a simple algorithm generating the initial conditions, and each step of the game is governed by a single rule any child can understand - yet the arising systems hundreds steps after the game has been launched can be mindboggingly complicated.

This is exactly what happens on a free market. There may be only one rule: no coercion allowed. That is it. Simple, right? Yet millions and billions of individuals interacting in this fundamentally simple and chaotic environment, each pursuing his own goals and interests, create very sophisticated structures and deep order. No government initiative created the stock market, for example; it arose spontaneously from large numbers of people trying to simplify the investing process - yet nowadays the most brilliant minds of this planet try their best at predicting the outcomes on the stock market and usually fail miserably.

There is incredible beauty in order arising from chaos, in complexity arising from simplicity. This is exactly what initially drew me into science: I adored it how seemingly simple axioms in mathematics or elementary observations in physics led to theories that require decades of hard work to only begin scratching surface of. The Great Fermat's Theorem can be formulated in a couple of sentences, and any middle school student can give a shot to proving it - yet it took over 300 years since its formulation for it to be rigorously proven by anyone, and the proof contained on the order of 100 pages.

Intellectuals like to dismiss simple ideas as "naive", as "idealistic". How many times have you said that you believe that market regulation by the government should not be a thing, only to be accused of wanting an unrealistic utopia, of not dealing with reality, of thinking that everyone is saint and no one will try to exploit such a system? I think that one of the ways we can respond to this criticism is pointing out exactly this: that simple systems can lead to complex outcomes. Someone will try to exploit the free market; the free market will come up with a solution to that attempt; someone else will try to exploit this solution; the market will generate another solution... A complex web of market patterns will be created, and, just like a system intelligently designed from the ground up, it will be a fascinating object of study, with unbelievable levels of complexity - the difference, however, is that web has been created by free individuals based on their needs, not by a central committee pursuing goals shrouded in mystery and, ultimately, trying to maximize its own well-being at the expense of everything else.

I don't know if this post has been helpful to anyone or interesting, but I hope that it shed some light on how intellectual thinks and why. Next time you are discussing something with an intellectual begging the state to interfere in everything, you may better understand their motivation and, perhaps, be able to respond in a way that they can resonate with.

Merry Christmas, friends!

Posted Dec 12, 2020, 2:39 AM UTC

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aureum_deus•

OP, I think you would enjoy reading Principia Politica by Nassim Taleb. It lays out a lot of the same ideas you laid out here. It's a pretty dense read, but it is quite good.

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yazalama•

Can you provide cliffnotes? Some themes it covers?

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aureum_deus•

Idk if you've read any of his other works, but it lays out a lot of similar themes as those. It goes over the general issues with centralized planning and ties into how active mitigation of risk may actually increase risks in the long run. It's pretty dense, but anything written by Taleb is definitely worth the read. And he's got a knack for approaching ideas from very novel angles.

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properalProperty is Peace•

I am having trouble finding the Principia Politica. Is it a book or a paper?

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illraden•
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properalProperty is Peace•

Thank you.😊

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Squalleke123•

Came here to recommend that as well. Or if OP doesn't particularly like reading: a lot of Taleb's talks are on youtube. He lays out his arguments in speech very nicely as well.

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psycho_trope_ic•

To play devil's advocate:

When your entire professional experience is that relatively simple sounding questions have unbelievably complex answers (if they can be answered at all), it must color your worldview.

I am not sure if this expert bias is made worse or better by trying to apply this observation outside your area of expertise. If you assume any given policy question is as complicated as any question in your own field, you might reasonably assume that solutions will need thousands of hours of expertise to even formulate what the 'correct' answers could be.

Now, I would think at least in physics (though like you my experience is that this is not how it works out in reality), that a recognition that very simple interactions allow for unimaginable complexity in systems should bias one towards very simple interaction rules.

Just my two cents.

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asherpChaotic-Good•

Otoh a lot of the complexity in a given field comes from wasting time redoing work accomplished in the same field or some other field. I can't tell you how many times a given algorithm is (re)discovered for doing the same task.

A lot of this resundancy comes from the siloing of information to a specific group or institution in order to protect intellectual property, ostensibly to get more papers published.

Btw the economic insensitives here are largely driven by government grants, so that introduces a lot of weird behaviors in academia that would seem strange in other contexts.

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properalProperty is Peace•

I think you are right. I like game theory and eventually found many complicated game theory models. The creators of those complicated models seemed to be showing off their math skills and intelligence.

Then I found The Dark Side of the Force: Economic Foundations of Conflict Theory by Jack Hirshleifer. Hirshleifer uses fairly simple models and lets the complexity emerge from them. I think this is genius.

It makes the mechanism easyer to understand, which is the main purpose of game theory anyway.

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E7ernalSome assembly required. Not for communists or children under 90.•

Ooh I should look at that.

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GoldAndBlackRule•

A good design is not finished when you can find nothing else to add, but rather find nothing else to remove.

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[deleted]•

Reminds me of a Milton Friedman quote:

The two, chief enemies of the free society or free enterprise are intellectuals, on the one hand, and businessmen, on the other, for opposite reasons. Every intellectual believes in freedom for himself, but he's opposed to freedom for others. [...] He thinks [...] [that] there ought to be a central planning board that will establish social priorities. [...] The businessmen are just the opposite—every businessman is in favor of freedom for everybody else, but, when it comes to himself that's a different question. He's always "the special case". He ought to get special privileges from the government, a tariff, this, that, and the other thing.

Reason Magazine, an Interview with Milton Friedman (December 1974)

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natermerWinner of the Awesome Libertarian Award•

This post is ironic because the problem faced by many academics isn't that they love complexity. It's that they don't understand how complex things truly are.

Ever heard of the phrase: "Your map of the territory is not the territory?". This means that what you think the world is is very different from that it actually is and how it actually works.

How many academics understand that "things that are random" and "things that are unknown" are essentially the same things?

​

The world is a insanely complex place and history is dominated by random events. It's easy to see the world in terms of bell curve graphs and statistics, but bell curves are fundamentally delusional.

Changes in the world come in the form of random cataclysmic events. Events of such monumental importance and once in a life time rarity and have such serious impact that they make a mockery of people that rely on the study of history and past events to produce models that predict future events.

This you can't dismiss rare and unique events as rare and unique because they exist in the long tails of your bell curve calculations. They may be rare and unique and unpredictable and unknowable, but the scope and size of the event is so massive that it changes everything.

Imagine some trend line you are following. Maybe stock market, maybe some sort of utilization of a particular technology or growth of a new industry. You see years of progress that happens in 0.5% or 0.75% increments. Decades worth of changes were the changes are measured in amounts far less then 2%. Then in one month you see 1000% change.

Whole decades of trends fundamentally changed by a single day.

Then statisticians, experts, and academics say "Oh this is a once in a million year event. This never should of happened and according to our calculations it will never happen again in the history of planet. And actually it was obvious that it was going to happen because of X, Y, and Z.'.

Then a even bigger event happens in 2 weeks.

That's the world. That is how it works.

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properalProperty is Peace•

I think understanding the map is not the territory is very important. Making the map more detailed doesn't necessarily make it more accurate. Some old maps have very detailed coastlines of continents but are inaccurate representations of the continents overall shape. Often the errors in the details can stack up to be less accurate than a less detailed representation, even if the simpler representation looks less impressive.

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[deleted]•

This was an interesting read OP, thanks for posting 😊

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asherpChaotic-Good•

Nail on the head, my friend!

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i-self•

I would add that there’s a great deal of self-justification and self-perpetuation in academia. It’s difficult for academics to accept simple solutions that could contribute to their (or their colleagues’ or their institution’s) obsolescence.

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