Long term weight loss without calorie counting?
I have been reading cheatmode for awhile now and am about to reread most of the blog posts. I have a question that you(silverhydra) may specifically be able to answer. I was going to write an email but figured others would be able to benefit from this question.
I know you have mentioned several times on your blog that you had previously been obese. I assume that you are currently maintaining that fat loss give or take. My question is have you come across any method as a future potential for maintaining weight loss in a previously obese subject without restriction? No calorie counting, no "intuitive eating", etc
Personally I have lost 100lbs give or take 20 depending on my enthusiasm. I have kept this off for about 4 years now. However, I constantly return to calorie counting and slightly obsessive behaviors simply because it works. I am sure others can relate to this; even at maintenance calories it feels like restriction. I find the outlook of doing this my entire life a little overwhelming and not exactly something I am looking forward to. I feel it takes away a lot from other areas of life. While nutrition and modern health is a subject of interest to me, I don't plan on it being forever.
Thanks in advanced and I certainly welcome others to respond as well.
Posted Sep 11, 2011, 10:04 PM UTC
Have you tried fasting before?
The only things I have found effective in actually 'resetting' my fat mindset have been (1) destroying my cravings for sweets with artificial sweeteners until I prefer them, (2) stimulant abuse and (3) Intermittent Fasting.
I don't necessarily recommend the first two since the former destroys a lot of pleasure from sweets, and the second one has 'abuse' built right into it. I hypocritically advise against stimulant abuse.
That being said, fasting a bit everyday for about 4-6 months has worked wonders in resetting my hunger patterns. That being said, a high dose of sweets still does trigger that hidden fat mentality.
(You could also just make something like Meat Slop, very high in protein, fiber, and general bulk, and force yourself to be full at low calories)
Thank you for the response I really appreciate it. Not too many people to talk to who respond with something that makes me believe they get it.
I did a water only keto diet for about 3 months. It worked OK but eating ad libitum even with <20carbs a day still resulted in fat gain(perhaps though not as much as a high carb diet but that is purely a retrospective). As for the reason I stopped. I found it much harder to calorie restrict on keto. I also really did not want to live my entire life enjoying one of the things that is most pleasurable.
I have started messing around with ephedrine. Just off and on nothing longer then a few day stretch. I would say it is helpful during the day but towards nighttime and not having taken for 6-8hours It is hard to not be unbearably hungry. And I personally am not 100% comfortable with even that amount of stimulant use (I would still take a miracle drug.)
I have tried Intermittent Fasting before but it was early on and never gave it the full attention it deserved. I also recently tried something similar to Eat Stop Eat. While they do seem the most helpful out of the other options they still don't allow me to eat ad libitum. While my maintenance is around 2700. Eating that in either 3-5 hours or double that(if ADFing) in a day is far from unnatural feeling to me.
As for the Meat Slop I am one of those people who can eat 4-6lb(4lbs frozen broccoli 1lb of steak etc) meals and still want more.
So having said all that, I am probably going to focus on some form of Intermittent fasting. Giving it a longer chance this time. Most likely an eating window style rather than alternate day as I seem to dread Monday night and Wednesday night knowing that I can't eat the next day. Combined with Weights I will most likely be using Cheat mode. I will update on how its going in a couple weeks.
As I said above I really appreciate the time you took to read and reply.
I do not know if you have looked into this at all. I remember reading about leptin injections in previously obese subjects being effective in returning them to a normal metabolic state rather than one of person who has dieted down to that weight.
Give the fasting a try, especially intermittent fasting since it has a bit of fast everyday and no days are 'dread'. That being said, a few things:
Leptin injections work for the leptin deficient, they will be inert or harmful for those who have normal leptin levels (as the problem is not leptin presence, but sensitivity). Think of it like insulin, great for people who have none (type I diabetics) but not something you want to inject at random times
One of the reasons I am recommending fasting, just to let you know, is that it might decrease the maximum size of the stomach. Given how you are one of those people who can eat 4-6lbs in a meal (same as myself; having a record of 10 feet of ribs in one meal) fasting has been great for this
If you are looking for an appetite suppressant but do not like the idea of stimulants, give this a shot. Chocamine. I initially bought it for myself to see if chocamine extract was causative for the chocolate taste (it is) but it actually is a good appetite suppressant. It won't prevent you from eating 3000kcal in one meal, but it will definitely decrease the desire you have to eat the 3000kcal meal in the first place, or decrease the desire to get the second serving which turns into your eighth (my discount code, if you wish to use it, is KSF812 for that one)
If you have any other questions, just send me a PM (or just ask here).
What.. the.. fuck
Chocamine seems pretty pricey. Would you use it every day or only on days you feel particularly strong cravings? I've had some seriously horrendous hormonal cravings this week, and I think I will need some help with that on a regular basis.
Its 0.15 a serving though (serving = 1g).
That being said, you could use it daily or only as an acute solution. There is no downside to using it intermittently.
Alright, I am definitely set on IF now after your second bullet point.
Also, Chocamine sounds interesting for multiple reasons. Chocolate flavor and benefits with no calories being one of them. Any thoughts on amounts to use?
As for leptin. Even if the cause of being overweight may be leptin resistance(caused by something else), at some point a person is weight stable at a higher weight. Once weight is lost they have lower levels of circulating leptin. So while they are resistant to it, they are now exposed to less of it. From what I have read a person who has lost weight has a lower metabolic rate then someone of the same weight who has not dieted down. In this scenario leptin injections seem to cause the person's body to act more naturally thin, metabolically and hormonally.
If what I meant was clear in the first response this can be ignored. I felt I did not explain what I was intending to well enough.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/87/5/2391 http://www.jci.org/articles/view/25977 http://www.ajcn.org/content/77/4/771.long
Those are a couple studies I have found on the subject.
Thanks again.
Leptin is an adipokine (secreted from fat tissue), if that fat is destroyed or removed, then leptin will be reduced for a while.
Think of that 'weight stable' period as a time where leptin is secreted in adequate amounts for your sensitivity and body type. Once you lose weight, leptin drops and you are out of 'balance'. You will eventually regain this balance if you hold the dropped weight, and since you cannot secrete more leptin you become more sensitive to it (to get the same overall amount of leptins effects).
Of course, injecting leptin is akin to secreting more of it, and brings you back to 'balance' quicker.
What I would be worried about though, is what happens after you stop the leptin injections. They didn't measure sensitivity per se in those studies nor did they study the subjects after the study period. It is theoretical that they were sustained in an artificial balance if they were never given time to sensitize to lower leptin levels.