Seoul education office’s push for LGBT students protection faces opposition
koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20210122000844
koreaherald.comPosted Jan 22, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC
2439
koreaherald.comthey should get the same rights as everyone else.
not more, not less.
13
“It will create a vicious cycle of stigmatizing students for discriminating against and hating (sexual-minority) students,” they said.
My god, do these people hear the absolute shit that falls out their mouth?? Fuck me.
“Please don’t make us feel bad for being hateful bigots. It’s very discriminatory and impacts our ability to be the worst group of humans imaginable. Unique situation etc etc. thank you for understanding.”
6
But if they're protected, that will provide discrimination against homophobes acting on their hatred.
5
I argue that there are relatively few homophobes because homosexuality isn't really a thing in korea. Its hard to hate something that doesn't really register. (For most koreans). For example, korea isn't really islamophobic because there aren't very many muslims in korea for koreans to be islamophobic against.
-36
‘Relatively few homophobes in Korea...’
Do you...know much about Korea and the particular brands of Christianity in Korea...? They literally can’t pass an anti discrimination bill in this country largely due to the backlash from huge numbers of radical Christian homophobes who claim it’s ‘against god’ and ‘will brainwash people to be gay’.
22
Don't forget that the first major COVID outbreak in Seoul was from a Korean who went to gay nightclubs, spread it, and wouldn't come out b/c of fear associated with being gay, and there was like a 3 week period foreigners in Seoul dealt with unusually high discrimination as the gay nightclub was in Itaewon. People'd rather die/spread the disease than come out here.
3
"homosexuality isn't really a thing in korea"
Do you have a source for this?
I think the very reason most homosexuality is driven underground and hidden is because of the homophobes.
12
There are DEFINITELY a large underground gay community in Korea.
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Username checks out
9
If you are so ignorant on the topic, why did you even post the article?
8
I mean... what does "protection" of sexual minorities mean here?
Does a student get in trouble for calling their classmate a slur, like faggot?
Or does a student get in trouble for openly saying they believe homosexuality is morally wrong?
There's a big difference.
-5
Both are wrong considering homosexuality isn't morally wrong. I'd hope both actions would be met with swift punishment.
8
That's a pretty slippery slope, to dictate whether students are allowed to say they believe something is morally wrong.
Should students also be punished for saying they believe eating meat is morally wrong? What about consensual incest? Sex-selective abortion? The death penalty? Polygamy? Circumcision? Who gets to dictate whether students are allowed to say they believe something is right or wrong - some kind of committee that ensures no one expresses personal beliefs that run counter to the current accepted cultural norms?
If you allow people to say what they believe, wrong and harmful beliefs can be debated and refuted. May the best idea win in the marketplace of ideas. But if you silence people, you only drive ideas underground and encourage a culture of insincerity, resentment, and lip service.
2†
When your morals start to impact another's person's choice, it's wrong. If someone wants to be in a polygamous relationship with people who agree with those terms, there's no harm. I'd say that goes with everything said. Your sense of morality does not give you a pass to judge others for behaviors that harm nobody else.
Gay Marriage - Has no negative impact on anyone.
Veganism/Vegetarian - Has no negative impact on anyone.
Circumcision - Potential negative impact. You can judge this one since the child didn't willingly ask for the procedure.
Drug use - Negative impact as shown by research. This is why it's illegal.
Abortion - No negative impact. You should not tell someone what to do with their body. Multiple studies show a majority of people do not regret their abortion and a collection of cells is not a life, so no moral issue.
Do you understand where and how the line is drawn?
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Everyone's morals impact everyone's choices. That's part of living in a society, and that's why we judge each other - to protect individuals and the group from harm. The issue is that people have different definitions and thresholds of what's harmful - which change with time and cultural norms. It's dangerous to disallow the questioning of cultural norms.
Interesting that you did not address incest and the death penalty. Anyway, I'm not arguing whether the individual practices I listed are harmful or wrong. I'm saying everyone should be able to freely express their personally held moral beliefs, since morality is not a science and cannot be determined by science. (Even if it were, science is constantly evolving and we should not cling too hard to any one hypothesis.)
There is no reason why your belief that all people should have bodily autonomy is more valid than my belief that all people should have freedom of speech. The two beliefs are also not mutually exclusive.
Let's take eating meat. If I say I believe eating meat is unnecessary, cruel, harmful to animals and the environment, and morally wrong... I'm stating my beliefs. I'm not infringing on your (currently) legal right to eat meat. Will I maybe hurt your feelings or offend you by saying that eating meat is cruel and selfish? Sure. Is it possible that I'll convince so many people, that eating meat will eventually be outlawed as a result? Sure. That's a consequence of freedom of speech: societal change is able to occur.
The advantage of freedom of speech is that no matter who's in power and which groups are oppressed, everyone can state their opinion, and initially unpopular, "unreasonable," "economically unsound," "harmful" opinions (like abolishing slavery, allowing mixed-race marriage, giving women the vote, and illegalizing child labor) can gain a foothold.
-4
One thing at a time. First lets try to overcome the discrimination against other races/cultures before trying to educate Koreans about the LGBT community. Too much at one time can be overwhelming.
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“In the draft plan, the Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education included its plan to support and protect minority pupils –- from multicultural to LGBT students -- to make schools are free from hatred and discrimination for their safety and welfare.”
Doesn’t seem ‘overwhelming’ at all to me? They want to protect minority groups. There should be no order when it comes to who should get/deserve protection first. Korea has had more than enough time to be educated about the LGBTQ community.
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For example, do you personally discriminate against Allosexual people? Do you go out of your way not to offend Skoliosexual individuals? Point being, start with the basics, because at times korea has trouble with the basic men vs. women thing.
-7
Are you seriously saying that Koreans are totally clueless and obtuse when it comes to the LGBTQ community? This is not 30-50 years ago...
7
This is not 30-50 years ago...
You are right, its not, social norms probably are stuck in a time even BEFORE then. I would almost equate it to attitudes from the American 1950's. This goes for women's rights, diversity, LGBTQ all across the board.
But you are absolutely correct that Koreans are totally clueless and obtuse when it comes to the LGBTQ community for the most part. Well, clueless is not really an accurate term as in most Koreans less than 50 years in age have knowledge of the LGBTQ community (at least the L and G part) through youtube, and mass media, but most do not have a grasp of the actual issues and do not have the experience of interacting with or witnessing the struggles of the LGBTQ community in a way that facilitates actual real-life compassion/empathy.
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The thing is that foreigners are obvious to koreans. They look different. I feel that the LGBTQ is marginalized because they are basically non-existent in most koreans' eyes. I think that acknowledgement that LGBTQ people exist is a necessary first step BEFORE trying to educate acceptance.
-15
This literally makes no sense...
10
Won't somebody think of the foreigners?!?
^^^^^/s
Seriously. What are you on about?
2
Think of it this way. Korea still puts out "rules on how pregnant women should behave"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/world/asia/korea-pregnant-women-advice-seoul.html
Point being, there isn't an universal standard on educating the general public about discrimination. The way you educate should be tailored to each community/society. Korea is still not over the woman are equal hill, which seems pretty basic. All I am saying is that its probably better to tackle one issue at a time.
-4
Well sure, once they learn how fabulous it is there won't be any stopping them.