Source
r/leagueoflegends•
ProEngineer3000

How much higher did damage get these last few years? Genuinely curious.

So as we all know, S11's current meta of mass healing and damage makes it not fun for many people (me included, which is one of the reasons I'm not really playing League a lot now), and I agree with many people's ideas of lowering damage across the board, restricting healing so it's not available to basically every champion and tuning GW accordingly. But did damage really get that much higher? Sure, runes are very strong now compared to pre-S8 masteries, and I'm an advocate of lowering their power level quite a bit.

But that can't be all right? I mean, it was quite more obvious this season, with many items having lower defensive stats and higher offensive ones, but people had been complaining about high damage for a few years now, so what exactly was happening back then? Did Riot start increasing scalings? Base damages? Offensive stats on items increased? It's not like one-shots haven't been in the game since its early days, so are people just exaggerating or not? Just yesterday I saw an Alistar and a Gragas (with a tank build) towerdive a Syndra in a proplay game and they managed to kill her in a bit over 2 seconds. Would this have not been possible, say, 3/4 years ago? I've been playing this game for around 5 and a half years but my memory of what damage was like in previous seasons is basically nonexistent so I'd like to know.

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Edit: While not exactly related to the main point, I also dislike how, to some degree, Riot seems to go too far when designing things that lower certain champs' weaknesses: Stridebreaker greatly removing counterplay from juggernauts, Galeforce allowing ADCs to dash away from fights, the recently removed PBE change of essentially giving enchanter supports higher ward placement range... I'm not against items that make it somewhat harder to deal with the champ in question, but I feel like they took it too far with some of the items.

Posted Feb 20, 2021, 11:39 AM UTC · edited

2030
Frequent-Economist-7•

Yes its a lot more dmg. Especially arround midgame. And because Most of the healing resolves arround DMG in the game it creates the situation we have now. Back than executioners was a niche Item, almost only bought against mundo.

14
YumaS2Astral•

Damage on champion's kits isn't that much higher compared to before, on many champs it is actually lowered. The problem is items and runes, they give so much damage potential to champs, and the worst of all, they potentially affect any champion. They also facilitate snowballing, as they add to the baseline amount of damage you have to take into account compared to before, and they scale well once you have even the slightest bit of AD/AP. For example, AD assassins with Electrocute and Duskblade.

We used to not have things such as keystones, for example. Also, current runes favour offense too much, whereas years ago, the masteries (spiritual antecessor to current runes) used to have more of a balance between offense and defense.

It is not like we used to not have one shot machines in the past. Remember mid lane Gragas? Or old Nidalee. old Kassadin. In most of those cases, however, the problem was their own kits specifically. Nowadays, any champion can be an one shot machine if they have the right items and runes.

11
ProEngineer3000OP:neeko: I'll get hooked again someday, playing other stuff now•

Hmm, I guess that's just it then. They've at least reduced burst on items, let's hope they actually think of reducing damage on runes.

1
Imakemop•

I do miss AP Sion.

1
Felyne1•

another thing is 1000 damage done in 0.1 sec or 10 sec is still the same 1000 damage, may change if you include healing, current meta, elo

1
Worldjones•

Every champion had + 13 armor and 13-18 MR from runes.

Athenes / abyssal was BIS on every mage

Zoe didnt exist

You dont get 1 shot if you just buy 1 defensive item but people forgot how to do thats

Starter item HP nerfs

Yea runes are more offensive today

9
ProEngineer3000OP:neeko: I'll get hooked again someday, playing other stuff now•

That's right, Athene's used to be core and didn't give that much AP, forgot about that.

Every champion had + 13 armor and 13-18 MR from runes.

I mean, wasn't basically every single champ given quite a big armor buff when S8 runes came precisely because of old runes being removed? But yes, runes are way more offensive now.

6
Worldjones•

That armor buff was way earlier and only +4 to compensate for armor seal nerfs from +13 to +9

3
kruchygHidden NA fan BibleThump•

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/V7.22 not true, most champs got around +9 with supports i think getting more and some mages getting less

5
moody_P:illaoi: illaoi mid/revert lillia :zyra:•

Stridebreaker greatly removing counterplay from juggernauts

this is probably the healthiest state darius has been in in a good while. lower dmg on juggernaut items and giving them more means to actually exert their kits is what I've said needed to happen for years. doesn't even remove his counterplay; he's still kited, he's still vulnerable to being disengaged, he just has tools that good darius players can use to succeed more. excellent addition to the game

8
ProEngineer3000OP:neeko: I'll get hooked again someday, playing other stuff now•

I mean, it IS healthier than Ghost+Nimbus Cloak I guess (why they decided to have Ghost extend is duration on takedowns is beyond me), and I like the item itself, but I feel like the slow+damage area is too big now.

5
moody_P:illaoi: illaoi mid/revert lillia :zyra:•

agree stride probably a bit op right now

i wish i got a good deal as darius did, i got the opposite, they took away all my cool items and runes and gave me more damage. really cringe, I think I'm gonna complain about it

5
TehBoomer:yone:•

Ah, yes. The 7.7% pick, 30.9% ban, 51.52% win rate, S+ tier Darius is healthy. TIL.

1
Le_Terry:kaisa:•

Just watch pro match highlights and plays from 2014-15 and then go watch highlights from 2017 to 2021and you'll see it yourself...

4
reikitsune:katarina: kat is so hard :katarina:•

Actually so weird to see front to back teamfighting back then

1
[deleted]•

It's not so much that damage is higher, as much as it is that players have gotten better at the game. Players have learned how to optimize their damage output, they have learned how to build more efficiently and they know their limits better. One key point here is that players have also gotten better at tower diving and coordination. In earlier seasons players were more scared of the turret because they just weren't as good. Now you see players freezing and getting towerdove in silver.

3
ProEngineer3000OP:neeko: I'll get hooked again someday, playing other stuff now•

Oh sure, I don't deny that people know how to use their attacks more effectively than they used to a few years ago, and there's obviously nothing wrong with that since it's a perfectly natural part of a game's lifespan. Damage has definitely increased in the last 3 years or so, but I guess it makes sense that the overall playerbase getting better at the game made the damage increase look even sharper.

1
[deleted]•

I don't think overall damage has really gone up, though more damage has come into items and that is undeniable. But this also makes itemization more interesting rather than being locked into a set build path and allows for more champions to be viable when their kit doesn't provide enough value to be viable.

For example Vayne: Now Vayne isn't the only tank killer champion. She still is undeniably great at shredding beefy targets, however, you aren't trolling by locking in your onetrick Sivir to a team of full tanks. Further, itemization has allowed Vayne to extend into avenues other than tank-killer. Galeforce allows her to reposition one extra time for that increased outplay, and Shieldbow lets her survive a little longer versus assassins in order to outplay them.

2
TehBoomer:yone:•

Damage is not even remotely similar to what it was 6 years ago. Yes, players have learned to optimize better...the playerbase as a whole knows the limits of champions they play better...these are true statements. However, damage is still way, WAY up.

1
Imakemop•

The biggest problem imo is that items and runes cover up any possible weakness any champ has.

Juggernauts are the perfect example. They will fuck you up if they can catch you but it's not something they can do on their own. Well now you have nimbus or stridebreaker (or why not both?) So now you've got high damage low mobility champ chasing after an adc except they have 450+ movespeed and the adc has 370. They have cc from their kit and cc in items so burning a cooldown wont save you.

3
UX1Z•

Or stuff like Electrocute on Azir, or Fleet on a whole shitload of champions. Runes are basically somewhere between a third summoner spell and a fifth ability.

1
Quatro_Leches•

imo. probably 30-50% higher since season 5. depends on the champion tho.

the majority of his coming from masteries, and a few new items

2
FlameButterfly:sion:•

Idk. To be honest I feel like Season 6 was by far the worst balance shit show league has ever seen. I don't think anything else really compares. The mediocre class updates mixed with the masteries was a nightmare.

I think there was possibly more damage in Season 6, than 10. After items though? Season 11 is definitely higher for sure. But runes are in the most balanced spot I think they have ever been in for the most part.

2
ProEngineer3000OP:neeko: I'll get hooked again someday, playing other stuff now•

I don't actually remember much about s6, can you tell me what it was about? I only remember the mage update.

2
FlameButterfly:sion:•

It was the true beginning of riot's attempts at modernizing league. Previously in season 5 league was in a very weird situation, with many old outdated kits and rune/mastery system mixed with new champions and rapid increase in popularity. As an example, Ekko and new gangplank were in the same games as old Yorick and old poppy. It was very dichotomous.

That being said some this began in season 5, but really fast forwarded through season 6.

So riot felt obligated to ramp up modernization, with several class updates and reworks, the addition of dynamic queue, the first major mastery rework, and significant jungle changes.

But riots ambition got the better of them.

The mastery changes were absolute nightmare. Fervor gave ridiculous damage, even more than conqeror. thunderlords gave absurd burst. Warlords bloodlust underwent probably 4 changes or so? It was a much for busted fleet as one point.Deathfire touch turned Brand into a 1v5 pentamage.

Courage of the Colussus broke several tanks completely for several patches, although CoC was added a bit later.

The class updates were equally disastrous. The juggernaut update (technically season 5 though) Skarner and morde reworks were awful and ruined balance completely for several patches. Garen's villain mechanic was scrapped because of how unintuitive it was.

Marksman update was better, but Quinn missed the mark. Graves was ridiculously busted too but many old graves players hated he became a jungler.

Mage update- Malzahar. Awful, but cassiopeia was decent.

They ended up cancelling the fighter update because of how badly the updates did.

On top of all these updates, new items were introduced with them, which brought on their own host issues, like steraks being nasty on graves for example.

Damage and balance was just all over the place. The updates changed too much too quickly. Mixing the dynamic Q launch with new masteries and items and jungle just juiced up league to some freaky messed mashup of metas and broken champs.

Add on riots attempt the make games quicker with minion and gold changes with all of this and it was just ridiculous.

3
ProEngineer3000OP:neeko: I'll get hooked again someday, playing other stuff now•

Oh yeah, I do remember CoC being absurdly OP when it was released, a huge amount of people running Thunderlord's and Warlord's Bloodlust being changed a lot (I remember 3 iterations: the one that healed with crits and made Yas and Trynda super strong, the one that gave lifesteal based on missing HP and IIRC its last iteration which was essentially what became Fleet Footwork). I remember AD jungle Malzahar being braindead easy and broken too. I don't actually remember that scrapped fighter rework, who was gonna be changed?

3
FlameButterfly:sion:•

Don't know, I think Aatrox was originally on the list though.

1
homer12346:jinx: Rexsaur's little femboy maid :jinx:•

completely depends on perspective, do you wanna compare it to season 10 black cleaver or league of cleaver stacking and dfg for example?

1
ProEngineer3000OP:neeko: I'll get hooked again someday, playing other stuff now•

Well, as much as I've heard about those things I can't really compare them since I wasn't playing when those were a thing. Was it worse back then?

1
Hollow_Knight_Fan:reksai:In LoR pog :fiddlesticks: Fiddle emote •

Just inflation of stats over time. Prowler's claw gives 21 lethality

1