If you can only select 1 from the first season, but as many as you like from all the others, what would be your top 10 favorite or series best episodes?
Posted Mar 4, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC
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I only limited 1 from Season one because of how much that season dominates the fan and media outlets top 10 lists.
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I get why the limit on Season 1. It defined the show. So many classic moments and I think there is a strong distinction between "best" and "favorite" moments.
I think In Excelsis Deo is the best episode from S1 followed closely by Celestial Navigation, Take This Sabbath Day and the Pilot. But my favorite is probably The Crackpots and These Women, even with Jed & Leo's little cringeworthy reflection.
as for best: In Excelsis Deo, In the Shadow of Two Gunmen 1&2, Noël, 17 People, Two Cathedrals, Enemies Foreign and Domestic, Posse Comitatus, 20 Hours in America 1&2, Twenty Five and The Supremes
my favorites?: The Crackpots and These Women, ITSo2G 1&2, Noël, 17 People, Stirred, 20HiA 1&2, Inauguration: Over There, Evidence of Things Not Seen, Commencement, and The Supremes.
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I agree there’s definitely an important distinction between the two Best V Favorite, but I really just wanted to put the very popular question out there with just a bit more of a challenge to it. Only in hopes of seeing more of TWW’s great episodes get some attention.
So I figured it doesn’t really matter how whither it be because they’re a fans favorites or some they consider to be among the best in the series.
But u/g-rocklobster was right, I should’ve limited S2 and gone with “what’s your top 10 S3-on” cause S2 does get an awful lot of love in the mainstream lists too.
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Our lists have several similarities and, like I said above, I forgot about "17 People."
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Glad to see the Supremes getting some love. I love it sooooo much. I love the podcast from TWWW discussing that episode, too. I just watched the Supremes yesterday after seeing an episode of SNL with Kate McKinnon as Glenn Close.
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The Supremes is widely regarded as the best post-Sorkin episode.
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You’re absolutely right. I just still love seeing others feel the same way I do. Because I LOVE it!
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Not as right as yo momma
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I’m literally watching it right now myself!
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I'll pick one from each season with an honourable mention from each in parentheses.
Season 1: Celestial Navigation (Let Bartlet Be Bartlet)
Season 2: Noel (The Stackhouse Filibuster)
Season 3: Posse Comitatus (Dead Irish Writers)
Season 4: 20 Hours in America (Life on Mars)
Season 5: The Supremes (Shutdown)
Season 6: Freedonia (Things Fall Apart)
Season 7: The Al Smith Dinner (Transition)
The whole run of episodes from 16-22 in season two is just sublime.
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Nice! Great list and I love the pick one from each season idea too!
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My favourites, including one from each season:
- In the Shadow of Two Gunmen - just a wonderfully constructed hour and a half of TV. It's the show at its wittiest and most quotable; these people are all in the midst of major crises and they're all being hilarious nonetheless, but it feels organic and realistic. My favourite elements of TWW are a., comedy, b., the Jed-Leo friendship, c., flashbacks to the campaign, and d., Hoynes; this episode delivers all of them. Leo's "whole houses, clear off the ground" speech makes me cry every time.
- Hartsfield's Landing - it's probably not objectively the best, but my best friend growing up was an internationally ranked chess player who got me into TWW and then died at 19. This episode aired just after he died, so it means something to me.
- Life on Mars - I have been the Josh to a Hoynes, and boy, do I feel this episode. Maybe my favourite moment of the series is when Leo is listing the people who knew about the computers and Josh says, in that perfect tentative voice, "...the vice-president?" Josh obviously still has some residual loyalty to the guy - it's not as simple as "he hates his ex-boss" - but when Josh hears that some shady stuff is happening, he just instinctively knows Hoynes is involved. That sense of recognition is something I know well.
- Pilot - like with any pilot, they were still ironing out bugs and getting the characters down, but as a standalone hour of TV, this is great entertainment.
- Two Cathedrals - I would never just watch Two Cathedrals on its own the way I would with any of my top 4, but as the culmination of season 2, it's perfect.
- Bartlet for America - Jed/Leo.
- Stirred - I might be the only person who would rank this one so high, but I just love Hoynes and the Hoynes/Jed and Hoynes/Leo relationships so much. A lesser show would have had Jed and Hoynes be enemies, and yes, we see plenty of friction (even "You get Hoynes!" in "Two Cathedrals" is clearly Jed threatening God with a lesser president than he believes himself to be), but I love that Jed wants to keep Hoynes on the ticket because Jed thinks he's the most qualified person to succeed to the presidency. This is also major character development for Jed.
- 2162 Votes - like #9 and #10, it's only this high because I was trying to find a representative from each season. But it certainly moves along and captures the exhilaration of a political campaign - if it had the wit of the Sorkin years, it could have been great.
- Requiem - I don't love the Leo-related parts of this (particularly the retconning of Leo's age to 58 - if he's 58 in 2006, and he's "known the president for 40 years" in 1999, he met Jed at 11?), but it's the most I ever like Santos or buy him as presidential. And I love when Josh feels like he's being pushed out and Santos tells him he's just trying to keep Josh from burning the relationships he'll need as Chief of Staff - did Josh even know before that that Santos wanted him as CoS? I always get excited for Josh in that moment.
- Abu el Banat - I understand that Zoey and Ellie have more dynamic storylines, but Liz is my favourite Bartlet daughter and I wish she'd been around more. Doug is realistically not too smart, which is tremendously hard to depict, and realistically not intimidated by his father-in-law's assistants. This is as good as S5 gets.
("What about The Supremes?" Has its moments, but I hate when they forget Mendoza. It gets a lot of credit because, in the middle of S5, it's the only episode that feels this much like a Sorkin-era episode...but I would argue that it feels like a weak Sorkin-era episode.)
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You shouldn't have limited Season 1 - you should have limited Season 2 ... I can probably make up half the list with Season 2 episodes alone!
S1E15 "Celestial Navigation" - it has a good mix of comedic relief while bringing attention relevant issues of the time
S2E1/2 "In the Shadow of Two Gunmen" (yes, I'm cheating a bit here) - mainly for so much of the backstory.
S2E8 "Shibboleth" - the actual Shibboleth scene was done great and, of course, the knife scene.
S2E10 "Noel" - entire episode was done well but the scene with Leo and Josh at the end ... that scene alone is probably in my favorite top 10 scenes of all time.
S2E22 "Two Cathedrals" - while the rest of these really aren't in any order, this episode stands as my favorite of the series. There was so much in it that was great and the choice of "Brothers in Arms" might have been the best choice of music for a scene in all of television.
Make that 3/4 of the list could be from Season 2 ... I had to self-limit this as I could have put another 4 or 5 on their easily.
S3E9 "The Women of Qumar" - AJ does an incredible job of portraying the torture she is feeling at having to support this nation despite their atrocities.
S3E10 "Barlet for America" - Spencer's acting is incredible in this one.
S3E15 "Hartsfield's Landing" - if a reboot is ever done with Rob Lowe as the President, this will be the "origin story" ...
S3E22 "Posse Comitatus" - another episode done incredibly well and the choice of music at the end was also perfect.
S5E17 "The Supremes" - both Glenn Close and William Fichtner do incredible jobs on this one.
I had "20 Hours in America" from Season 4 in there until I remembered about "Bartlet for America" so I'm demoting it to "Honorable Mention" (see below) along with "Transition." Seasons 4 and 5 (more on 5 shortly) both have several that could have made the cut but then I'd have to start trying to weigh them over some of the above. Seasons 6 and 7 have good episodes in them but none of them are standing out like these do outside of "Transition" - even "Tomorrow", while well done, wouldn't make the cut. The acting that Spencer did for the heart attack was so incredible that my wife leaves the room whenever that scene is approaching but the story line wasn't one of my favorites.
Honorable Mention
S4E1/2 "20 Hours in America" (yeah, I'm cheating again) - the comedic relief of Josh and Toby's frustration balanced by the gravitas of the bombing and their realizations that they aren't doing enough for the country.
S7E19 "Transition" - Whitford's portrayal of a Josh quickly on the way to ruin only to be saved by Sam is great.
Season 5 gets a lot of grief given the transition from Sorkin/Schlamme to Wells. But there are actually some great episodes in it. Maybe the overall feel of the season is sub-par but there are a good 5 or so episodes that will stand up to anything in the other, "better" seasons. I think you could easily put the following in the list (I'm only mentioning them because everyone craps on S5 so much):
Hey thanks what a great list and feedback!
I wouldn’t have limited season 1 at all or any season tbh, it’s just that when you look at every single mainstream media’s top episode and moment lists, it’s like all S1 with maybe 1 episode from another season and maybe 1 moment from another season too. I just know there’s so many more moments just as good and in some cases better.
I love so many episodes throughout the show and my thinking was that since Sorkin’s talked about how he had a lot of great material through TAP and TWW research for Season 1, but at that time was genuinely only just beginning to understand what a great, magical, and charismatic ensemble they all had on their hands with that unmatched on-screen chemistry, during season 1, as he explains that he really didn’t get to fully play off of all of that very well until later on and closer to season 2-on with the series.
I love seasons 1-7 (of course there’s some 5 episodes I can live without, but still I love the entire series) I just wanted to see some alt top 10 lists and really wanted to see personal favorites that maybe people love, but don’t list em as often because there’s so many well known award winning moments in other episodes too.
Just an idea was all. Thank you!
Edit: and you’re right! Between your list and double checking most of the mainstream ones I definitely should’ve said without S2. Maybe should’ve made it really challenging and said “outside of the first 2 seasons what’s your top 10?”
Even 3 and 4 have a good handful that would probably make the list. For me it really wasn't until 6 and 7 that I'd have to "stretch" to find something that could make a top-10 list.
My wife and I are on our ... 10th? 11th? rewatch of "Sports Night" right now. We do that one more frequently than TWW because you can do it much quicker - with only 45 20 min episodes you can knock out 3 or 4 a night. Or, in our case, we'll binge something else in the living room (most recently "The Americans") and watch an episode or two of SN before going to sleep to kind of wind down from the intensity of whatever we were watching before. It's an unpopular opinion but I truly think that "Sports Night" was as good as TWW. The cast chemistry was just as good. Plus there were so many storylines that Sorkin pulled over to TWW from SN (maybe not exact but certainly similar).
Hell yeah S3 is actually one of my personal favorites. I say it all the time, I think from “Hartsfield Landing”-on that seasons episodes had this perfect balance of comedy and drama like Sorkin and co hit a type of rhythm with that or something in the writers room around that time. I love and recognize this in plenty of other episodes too, but there’s something about that run of episodes comedy/drama ratio that seems perfect to me.
I also wouldn’t think that saying “Sports Night” was just as good as TWW would ever be unpopular either? They had an amazing cast, plot device (and one that was perfect for Sorkin seeing as Sportscenter and driving in his car listening to music are his “how to breakthrough writers block” tactics) and of course how Sorkins favorite writer to steal from tends to be himself, which I kinda love anyway, but helps us Sorkin fans enjoy the little moments that those who aren’t familiar with all his work dont get to appreciate as much.
However, I’ll agree with you that they definitely had an amazing and great chemistry together too ensemble, I genuinely don’t think any other TV ensemble has had the same amount of all the way around perfection as TWW’s had and like Sports Nights I love plenty of others too. It’s just they have some kind of X factor on TWW that I feel like even among all of the other best or great TV ensembles out there, they are still missing that one small something that TWW’s had and seems impossible to replicate to me.
This is all opinion though and one that it’s hard for me to say; that TWW’s was at all better than Sports nights, because I loved that show and hated that it so clearly ended way before it’s time. (Even though if it hadn’t we probably would’ve lost something on TWW or TWW S3-on instead). In fact being fair had the series gone on for even 1 or 2 more seasons, I might easily prove myself wrong after we truly got to see everywhere that Sorkin can take a great casted* ensemble. They were amazing and it’s hard maybe even wrong to put one of the ensembles above the other. Usually I say this about TWW in comparison to all the other great shows out there especially the many great ones it went head to head against during awards seasons. That statement about these two shows is to tough a call tbh.
Regardless Sports Night is still definitely as good as TWW.
Hate that it ended when it did as well but in listening to Sorkin on "The West Wing Weekly" he admitted that he never could have kept up both - certainly not to the high standards he had already set.
u/UncleOok has a list that shares some of mine ... and the ones he has that I don't were a struggle for me to not include and, frankly, I forgot about "17 People" though I'm not sure what I'd have cut to make room for it.