Limithron's Guide to Naval Combat
reddit.com/gallery/mdoxeu
reddit.comPosted Mar 26, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC
1.9K76
reddit.comAfter years of design and playtesting, I am proud to announce that Limithron’s Guide to Naval Combat is out now… and the core PDF is a free download (no strings attached, I promise... click the link and it will download!)
You can also preview the other cards, art, and tokens that I offer my patron over on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/49197752
And finally, if you are interested in 50 more free maps and assets, check out my website and sign up for the emailing list. I only send 1 or 2 a month, and it's always free stuff: Limithron.com
-----
As stated in the credits, all art is my own except the cover, which is:
The Battle of Trafalgar by William Clarkson Stanfield, 1836, Public Domain (PD-US-expired), Courtesy of Wikimedia.org.
----
I’ve always struggled with other naval supplements. Either they are way too complicated, wildly unrealistic, or they don’t provide a great bridge between ship scale combat and normal player character actions. Through years of games like Sid Meier's Pirates, Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag, Oak & Iron, and Pirates Constructible Strategy Game, I think I’ve cracked the code to make ship combat work at the D&D table. In fact, I highly recommend picking up the last two: both have ship models at the perfect scale for use with this supplement.
This system is designed around hex based ship movement—which I promise you will love—and with the core ethos that ships are like big monsters and their stats are factored by a ratio of 5:1 in relation to creatures. If a ship has 100hp for naval combat, it has 500hp when the wizard throws a fireball at it. If a cannon does 1d6 damage against another ship, it would do 1d6 x 5 (or 5d6 if you like rolling dice) if you aimed it at a Dragon Turtle. This makes combat fast and fun instead of an exercise in counting huge dice rolls and consulting spreadsheets. There is also the added bonus of being able to upgrade or customize ships with any monster ability from the Monster’s Manual.
This system is also scalable and is enjoyable for players whether you have 6 PCs on one ship or each player has their own vessel. Don’t be afraid to let your players capture as many ships as they want… and then sink them all when the Pirate Hunters show up!
I’ve included ship cards and new art for all of the ships I have previously released: sloop, brigantine, frigate, galley, and 1st Rate Ship of the Line, and I meticulously rebuilt tokens and tiles for all these ships so they are as useful as possible. All ships (except the Ship of the Line) have 3x3 tokens and are designed for use on a 50ft per space hex grid. If you use Foundry, I recommend setting the token size to 1x1 but then scale the art up 3x so the ships turn and move on a single hex. The Ship of the Line is 6x6. The Tiles are 10x bigger and for use in creature scale combat.
43
This looks cool, I wanted to make a pirate themed campaign, I'll definitely use this
14
Definitely check out my Patreon page. Sooo much free pirate stuff
13
Hey! I presume my Naval Combat guide was one of those "too complied" supplements you tried (The Naval Code). It seems like there is a lot in common between the two. This is a pretty neat little document, sort of a "in a nutshell" and I like that. I wanted to mention some questions/comments that I had when reading it, you don't have to answer them all but I think you should at least read through them:
-
First I jsut want to say the art is very charming, I see that that is a focus of yours and it shows.
-
The Dice scaling is an interesting mechanic, but it doesn't clarify if they scale ship -> ship? If so, why not just use the new numbers? I made use of Siege Weapon properties in my own document to address it. You should also clarify which dice are scaled, because right now it just says "rolls and stats" Are the repairs scaled? If so, do you also scale the flat modifier? What about sailing dice? I think you only mean Damage and HP are scaled and the language should reflect that.
-
Personally, I dislike the wind only giving penalties and no bonuses. Instead of feeling rewarded when you play upwind, you will only be doing the speed listed on the card originally, and 7/8 bearings are penalizing you. Right now, the optional rule only penalizes you so I don't know why you would want to use it.
-
This initiative phase is interesting, but strays pretty far from 5e's core design. Having to decide your actions before initiative is rolled means you may not be able to do them, or other actions being far superior, by the time your turn comes around. Do you hold your players to their choices, jumping of the deck to board or firing cannons at empty sea? Or do they lose their turn if they can't complete their action? This just doesn't work well with 5e.
-
It seems like this doc runs into an issue that a lot of naval combat supplements do, and that is an issue of things to do in combat. You specifically mention up to 6 players, but as far as I can tell it is only the captain who does something ship related each round, with potentially one or two others (since most ships only have 2-3 action points). And they don't make choices, just roll the check.
- An extension of that, it isn't clear whether taking a station simply lets you roll the check if the action is taken, or if you can take that action additionally. Some, like Full Sail are in the ship action chart with a cost, but some (Raise Morale) are not. A singe line in the "ships turn" section mentions doing these alongside the ship action, but some are ship actions as well.
- P.P.S., the "other actions" section encompasses a lot of things and there is lots of extra space on that page. I think this could do with a bit more outlining on what you can do and what the effects it may have.
-
I really like the "Stressed"condition. It is similar to the rules I use in standard combat to avoid a death spiral. No other comments, just a good inclusion.
-
I would definitely encourage outlining the boarding processes a bit more, and mentioning how it can be done.
-
I didn't see it listed as a part of your patreon, so I feel like including a blank "ship stat sheet" like the one in the front would have been appropriate, so people can fill it in with their own stats.
In all I think this is a pretty good, slim take, but in slimming it I'm afraid you left some holes open. Patch those up and I think it is smooth sailing from here out.
13
Thanks! Yeah I've seen your's. It's really great - I just wanted to do my own take. Here are my responses. I disagree with you on several points but know that its is all in the spirit of good D&D rules discussion as I appreciate your points a lot!
-
Thanks! I'm mostly an artist, rules and adventures come 2nd.
-
The entire supplement is self contained... I'm just stating if you needed to convert from ships to PCs its 1:5. I've updated the first line to be: The damages rolls and hit points in this supplement are scaled by a factor of 1:5 when compared to creature scale combat. Thanks!
-
Disagree on the wind point. These winds rules are as complicated as I'd ever want them. Don't want to use wind? fine a sloop move 6 hexes a turn. You want to? ok close is half, in irons is zero. Really easy. plus if you play with 6 second rounds all these ships move too fast as is. And mathematically you are describing the same thing: slow close to the wind, fast with the wind. Also its 3 out of 6 penalize you, not 7/8: the two close are half speed and in irons is 0. Good input though.
4-5. Disagree that is "just doesn't work well" with 5e, especially with play testing. In fact, the idea came from the DMG p.270 Speed Factor, so while it is a variant, it's in the spirit of 5e IMO.
The ship has to decide a strategy for the turn, but when the turn comes they crew can adapt. Players can do whatever they want on their turn (jump, cast a spell, shoot their pistol at another ship [dmg divided by 5 of course]), but the captain calls out what they want them to do at the top of the round. And and outline that they spend their action to pick a role: Pg 8: Players can spend their action to claim any of the available action stations. Also Gunner, Carpenter, and Rigger can all have any number of PCs, and the Lookout, Captain, Pilot, and Bosun all have something they can do every turn. And player pick on the turn, not at the top... I'm my playtesting everyone had something to do each round. Deciding to lookout or gun was a fun strategy choice! "WE HAVE TO HIT THIS TURN!" or " We really want to go 2nd this turn".
Re: extra actions: There is extra space on that page because it is filled on the full paid version - lame I know but I only have so many hours in the day! The Other actions section is left "lite" on purpose. Same with Boarding. I don't believe rulesets need to be so verbose and exhaustive to be useful. When ships collide, I'm switching to battlemaps and rolling initiative for the creatures, and if the PCs wants to do something, let them! I've found that this concept is a little less 5e and more OSR... lots of official content and UA spells out all the details and I really don't want that in every book I buy... so you know "be the change you wish to see" haha.
Raise Morale is a Bosun action, like Push the Crew is a Captain action, but you are correct: it should say that Raise Morale is a bonus action. I've updated in the next version. The chart is for the ship actions the captain can command at the top of the round.
Stressed: Thanks!
Blank ship card was planned by forgot. Great idea. I have plans to do much more and maybe a kickstarter and was thinking of doing a blank card and maybe a character sheet for ships
Also, if they need more boarding rules they can always use the Naval code! ;-)
Thanks for the feedback. It was very helpful! and thanks for taking the time to read it. You're welcome to hope on my discord server if you want to chat with more naval 5e players: https://discord.gg/7xaDmyZ
7
My god, is this just not exactly what I needed. I wanted my next campaign to be a seafaring adventure, and now I don't have to rely on WoTC's underbaked UA Of Ships and Seas.
8
that is great news. enjoy!
4
Thank you so much for this! I start my high seas campaign tomorrow!
7
This is perfect, I have been planning a campaign that will have flying ships as a core mechanic so this is going to take a huge load off
6
Okay, I give in, I fucking love this. Not a fan of converting PC/NPC stats for inanimate objects but you've fixed everything else wrong with every other naval system out there and made the stats usable and sensible. Huge props to you!
6
Thanks! Yeah its not a perfect method, but it sure makes CR balancing and adding upgrade fun and easy!
3
I’m starting a pirate themed campaign in acouple of weeks and this is a god send, If I wasn’t broke from all the minis i’d give you an award
4
Your comment is award enough for me!
2
Got the email already reading it. I swear you know where my campaigns are headed as you keep releasing relevant materials <3
2
1 word SAVED
2
This is awesome! Got any recommendations for resources on running trade fleets etc? Got some players who are going down that road, this however will be excellent for the pirates and inevitable rescue missions they’ll have to undertake!
2
Ah like the side game in Assassin's Creed? Nah not yet. That could be a cool add down the road. I'm honestly just model it after that... give them 4 or 5 easy trade cities, let them decide what ships to send, roll rolls behind the scenes to determine how successful they were and how much loot, then open more cities as they get more powerful, but raise the DC for the trade route.
3
Oh, you're the one with that 4-story pirate hideout map! I love that thing so much and if it wouldn't be such an undertaking during a time I'm so busy, I would be trying to turn it into a large Tabletop Simulator map in 3-d.
I think it's such a cool location, and the rest of your pirate themed content is really cool as well.
1
Guilty as charged! If you ever do, please let me know. I'd love to see it!
1
Just out of curiosity since you were kind enough to respond... how much vertical distance would you say separates each of those four maps?
You know, in case I take a crack at making it so I can get it close to scale.
1
It won’t LOAAAAAD I NEED THISSSSS
2
Copy the link and use in browser. This did not work for me in reddit app.
1
This is exactly what the doctor ordered.
2
Alright, I was planning to let players get a ship during tomorrow's session, we have just started our naval campaign, I just was undecided on which rules to use for ship combat. Now I've decided for sure, going to use yours! I can already imagine the battle against the Leviathan
2
Love it! One thing this ruleset gives is a decent option for a party-sized ship that is still a real ship. A lot of nautical campaigns feel forced to use a larger ship that can't be crewed by a party, but that makes it a lot less rewarding as an RPG.
If it is plot relevant, a low level party should be able to get their own sloop rather than being forced to be part of the crew for an NPC captain. Then they actually get to do these maneuvers and live their best pirate lives!
2
Is cargo a thing in 5e somewhere or in another suppliment you made? I cant seem to find anything regarding this. What is "1 cargo?" A certain tonnage or volume? Thanks!
2
Nah it’s just a rough guide for the DM. No rules attached. I’m my game I just say “you’ve plunders 2 cargo spaces of sugar worth 1000gp in the right port”. I like my rules fast and easy
3
Ah. That makes sense. Hence the variable price you mentioned in the PDF. We have a naval campaign going on and ive been doing all the accounting and inventory stuff so I wanted to see the insight for the cargo thing. I rather like simplicity of this. Helps keep the spreadsheeting down.
1
We had one player who love the bookkeeping quarter master part. But the others thought it was so boring. So when he left the campaign I made it simple like this. More enjoyable for all I think
1
You should repost this to the Ghosts of Saltmarsh subreddit.
2
My party is coming up to a port town and I’m going to assume they end up on a ship this is going to be helpful if they get into a fight at seas. This is amazing work and would love to see more like this. (I love the naval setting for story telling)
2
I have been running a pirate game for a good 40 odd sessions now, our naval combat has been fairly abstract.
I will send this to our group and see if they fancy testing this version of rules in the next game.
2
This looks awesome! I‘ve merely skimmed it, but will definitely take a closer look in a couple of days.
Thanks for granting free access!
Thanks! Let me know what you think - I'm happy to hear feedback
Ok I've read through it and hear are my thoughts.
Overall: Great work, easy to understand and very intuitive. It captures most of what I (as a filthy ship-casual) envision seafaring combat should look like.
However, here are my
twothree cons:Otherwise here are some pros:
- My god, the ART! Love it. Solid work my dude.
- Rolling initiative each round makes it feel different, and gives each turn some umph, some weight..
- Sailor's Die. Very nice inclusion!
- Stressed and Derelict condition are also nice.
- Giving bigger ships more AP, is a great way to enhance threat level and circumvents a whole lot of issues.
Anyway, like I've said plenty times now, awesome work. I'm very happy that a simpleton like me could get it on their second read-through.
Edit: counting is difficult.
Hey thanks for the feedback.
Thanks for all the feedback - both positive and the critiques!
I'm going to download and read this, and my may by the full content. I'm just wondering, if the whole package is focused on 17th and 18th century sailing ships, or if you also include Chinese junks, early Portuguese caravels, Viking or Ironborn longships, Elven swan ships, Greek and Roman galleys, and the ancient Phoenician ships that pioneered the Mediterranean? There are so many generations of ships and different tech levels that people run their campaigns, it would be difficult. But I'm curious!