Source
r/RWBY•
AlarmingStandard

(Spoilers) I can’t get no…

SpoilerDISCUSSION

..satisfying conclusion to Penny’s character.

First a disclaimer; this isn’t a Jaune hate post or anything of the sort. I’m seeing debate on this devolving into accusations, so I want to cut that off now. This is my opinion/critique on Penny’s demise which includes Jaune’s part in it.

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Penny had a fantastic arc this volume. She went from a character I was largely indifferent about, to someone that I felt very endeared to. The last volume told us Penny had a soul, this volume we got to explore it. Seeing Penny’s humanity made Ruby’s reinforcement meaningful, rather than empty rhetoric. Penny had heart. Ironically, her end is soulless to me.

Jaune being tapped to take the plunge is where it all falls short. Mostly because it doesn’t feel earned. He lacks a relationship with Penny, a rapport. He also lacks an arc this volume that would crossover in a satisfying manner. It feels clinical. And I can’t get behind his grief, I feel so indifferent about it. The human connection is missing.

That’s what is unsatisfying. Penny dying is heartbreaking, but Jaune doesn’t add much to that. I feel like there was a missed opportunity in really driving her sacrifice home. That is, using Ruby instead.

The one person that’s been unwavering in her belief in Penny’s soul was Ruby. It’s built into their dynamic, it makes their relationship intimate and meaningful. Ruby’s firm insistence mattered. And honestly, it feels like their arc this volume was working towards this moment, even foreshadowed. If we substitute Ruby for Jaune, then all the emotional build-up becomes a climax.

Ruby would be in a difficult position of choosing to accept Penny’s sacrifice or reject it. But what’s more human than putting your life before others like Penny is doing? Effectively, this is Ruby’s final reinforcement of Penny’s soul. Her insistence on Penny’s humanity would be put to the test. That isn’t just heartbreaking, it’s a devastating conclusion to their arc. That’s what I wanted; a heartfelt, intimate moment that had real impact behind the blow. Something that would stick with me, because I’m already feeling what happened slipping away.

Now, I’m pretty there’s going to be objections to Ruby being the one there for Penny. To address a few:

  • It had to be Jaune because he’s a guy: This falls short because the whole point was to choose a successor. Penny could’ve handed her powers to Weiss, but then it’s the same situation. The difference is the target. Same with Ruby. Penny has the agency to pick who she thinks is the best choice in the current situation.
  • Something, something Jaune focus: I don’t object to Jaune getting focus. If anything, he needed more and is missing a clear, concise arc this volume. If he did have one that crossed over into Penny’s, then it could’ve been very satisfying. But there is no effort put into the build-up to this moment. That’s what I take issue with, it’s not Jaune as a character in general.
  • Ruby wouldn’t do it: The simple counter is yes, she could. There is a lot of underestimating of her character, and I don’t blame people for that. Ruby is underutilized in her own story. She often doesn’t get a climax to her arcs in a volume. This makes her feel distant from events due to a lack of agency. She needed a moment to firmly attached her to the finale, rather than dropping her into the void not even halfway into it.

Overall, it does feel like the writers backed out of a more meaningful conclusion at the last moment. And yes, I understand that they have plans for the future, and this may make more sense next volume. But I’m tired of this “time will tell” style of writing. Time does tell, and it’s been telling me over and over again that RWBY doesn’t deliver. It’s always in the future. I want a solid character arc with a satisfying conclusion in a single volume.

I shouldn’t need to wait until the last moment of the series to get satisfaction.

Anywho, that’s my thoughts. Feel free to add yours, I would love to hear some different views!

Posted Mar 28, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

1771
AmbivertCollegeGuyWeiss "Hug Monster" Schnee•

It could never be Ruby for one simple reason: Penny would've passed the power onto her.

She promised to do so a few episodes ago. What better choice than her best friend and the greatest person she's ever known? By throwing Ruby into the void, Penny assumed that she was dead and had to send the powers to Winter. It's the best narrative choice since the opposite is giving Ruby ultimate power that can easily break the story. Silver eyes + Maiden Powers = Broken Shonen Protagonist

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MightyDickTwist•

Okay... why not Winter, then? She was going there anyway. They got Ironwood out just to prevent Winter from going into the Vault. Instead of asking Jaune for him to kill her, she just runs straight into Winter's sword after Winter refuses to accept the power.

6
AmbivertCollegeGuyWeiss "Hug Monster" Schnee•

Because why Winter when you have Ruby? She will always be Penny's number one.

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MightyDickTwist•

I understand why it can't be Ruby, I can see why she was taken out early. Which is why I said that it could've been Winter instead. Winter had development and character interactions with Penny, and had a story to tell about sacrificing others vs sacrificing oneself this very volume. Her breaking away from Ironwood could've been used to finish off this story, with her refusing to accept Penny's death and thus forcing Penny to do it like a Nagato and Yahiko moment. So Winter only gets the power when she doesn't want to (add in a "Weiss is in danger, I need to help her" and a "I got the powers, even though I didn't want them anymore, and I still couldn't save Weiss" to the mix), and it was Penny's choice to give it to her.

Mind you, I'm only talking about this being a possibility. It could have been Winter. I have no idea what CRWBY intends to do here.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

Like I mentioned, it's not much of hurdle writing wise.

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AmbivertCollegeGuyWeiss "Hug Monster" Schnee•

Ok, then, explain how. Because you didn't mention this topic.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

Oh, sod - sorry I got comments mixed up. My bad.

So yeah, writing wise it isn't much of hurdle. Penny and Ruby could easily reason that Winter would be the best option in the moment. Giving them to Ruby doesn't help, since she's already a target and there's no guarantee she could escape from her current situation, even with the power boost. It can be framed with Ruby being out aura and weaponless, Neo pressing her, and Cinder coming for them as well. Misdirection could be employed as well; Cinder and the audience are made to believe Ruby got the power.

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AmbivertCollegeGuyWeiss "Hug Monster" Schnee•

No biggies.

That frame is unlikely to happen since they would need to have a moment to themselves which is impossible with Neo pressing Ruby all the time and even more so if you throw Cinder into the mix. Not to mention, precisely because Ruby is weaponless, the power would allow her to create a replacement for Crescent Rose. More so, Ruby's SE makes her a danger to Cinder hence why Neo was the only one fighting her. If Ruby gets the power then Cinder cannot get them without facing a huge risk of instant kill. And with the powers, she can easily take down Neo. Ruby would defeat both of them if she was a maiden. I don't see how Penny would think Winter is a better option.

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cruel-oathWaiting for the title characters to be good again•

They could have had ruby transfer the powers to someone else in some volume or something

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AmbivertCollegeGuyWeiss "Hug Monster" Schnee•

That can only be done with Atlas' technology (which is now under the sea) or by killing her so it's obviously not gonna happen.

5
itanshiWishing Upon A Blackstar•

I think him being a healer alone makes him the best choice, but it also plays into his own arc and how he wanted to sacrifice himself. I won't say the two are similar situations, but Jaune has some more growth ahead of them. Heck, they all do and I'm sure they'll come out stronger and ready.

Which makes me think vacuo will fall.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

That's been pointed out before, but if there's no effort on his part to heal then what good is it? In the end, it's a convenient excuse, rather than a friend coming the add of another.

Jaune's arc wasn't about trying to sacrifice himself, it was being blinded by vengeance to the point of attempted suicide. The lesson was never about sacrifice and never heroic. I don't think that should be linked to Penny. I also meant an arc this volume. Like making the conflict with Ren matter.

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Ravell_Aqim•

The whole "they're the ones who matter" suggests otherwise - that whole element can't be explained if Jaune's arc was simply about suicidal vengeance.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

I don't think so, Jaune's arc was never subtle.

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Ravell_Aqim•

And I don't think one can simply disregard elements of the arc (in this case statements he actually said in the midst of it), just because they don't fit a viewer's definition of what his arc was about.

As it is, however, while I think his reaction will be influence both by his role as a healer and the act being at odds with his general desire to protect his friends and others, I don't think here's going to be tied to any earlier self-sacrificial notions.

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Ravell_Aqim•

Ruby wouldn’t do it: The simple counter is yes, she could.

And the simple counter to that is I don't think she would. And it's not a matter of "underestimating" her, or thinking that's somehow an inadequacy. She'd already adamantly refused to do so (albeit in somewhat different circumstances), and the fact she was so close militates against that. I don't know Jaune could have brought himself to kill Pyrrha in similar circumstances, or Nora for that matter. Indeed of the group I think Blake or Ren could have killed Penny, and possibly Weiss could have, but I doubt Yang or Nora would have (setting aside issues with weapons).

There is also the matter that, were it Ruby, why wouldn't Penny give her the powers? She had already offered them to her earlier when she asked Ruby to kill her.

And Jaune's reaction is not just, or even primarily about grief - it's about being asked to do an that will strike him as horrible. There's a lot of symbolism in he seeing his reflection in a clean and unbroken Crocea Mors, and then when we next see it's bloodstained and then breaks. Any struggle he'll face from this will be about living with himself (indeed, as I've mentioned in a couple of comments, my grandfather was apparently involved in a similar incident during WW2, and it affected him and gave him occasional nightmares until the end of his life). The principal grief arc will remain with Ruby (when she finds out), as her closest friend, as it should be. Indeed that arc would probably be a little muddled if she was also the one to kill her. Indeed I can't see how having Ruby kill Penny would serve as an conclusion to any arc of Ruby's in this volume as it is.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

Ruby isn't backed against the wall with Penny at that point - there's still hope. Her doing everything right and saving Penny, only to be the one with Penny's life in her hands in the end is a heartbreaking development. Especially if she knows Penny is right. And honestly, if Jaune can do then so can Ruby.

There is also the matter that, were it Ruby, why wouldn't Penny give her the powers?

Depends if you think they aren't capable of reasoning out a different solution. I do. I think Penny and Ruby could both come to the conclusion that Winter is the better choice in the moment. Ruby has Cinder on her, Neo could still be around, even with powers it's still likely a delaying action, not a solution. We don't need a male character to make that part believable, just solid writing.

And Jaune's reaction is not just, or even primarily about grief - it's about being asked to do an that will strike him as horrible.

Which any hero character would struggle with (except maybe Oscar/Oz), it's not unique to Jaune. And his symbolism is primarily selfish - it's reflected on him, not what Penny represents. I honestly don't care about Jaune's sword breaking, I do care about Ruby's heart breaking though.

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Ravell_Aqim•

I think we're going to have to agree to differ on the Ruby issue. I don't see the willingness to kill Penny as necessarily being a virtue to aspire to or an unwillingness as a weakness.

But I'm not sure what your first point is with this:

Which any hero character would struggle with (except maybe Oscar/Oz), it's not unique to Jaune.

Of course it isn't unique to Jaune. So what? I'd just mentioned my own grandfather.

And his symbolism is primarily selfish - it's reflected on him, not what Penny represents. I honestly don't care about Jaune's sword breaking, I do care about Ruby's heart breaking though.

Since we've just spoken about the sword breaking being symbolic the concern is obviously not about the sword itself. The point is Jaune's reaction isn't going to be a function of being especially close to Penny. And Ruby's heart will be breaking anyway.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

I think we're going to have to agree to differ on the Ruby issue. I don't see the willingness to kill Penny as necessarily being a virtue to aspire to or an unwillingness as a weakness.

I don't either, I never implied that. But can agree to disagree.

Of course it isn't unique to Jaune. So what? I'd just mentioned my own grandfather.

Because it was the lead in for your point. Why is Jaune singled out?

Since we've just spoken about the sword breaking being symbolic the concern is obviously not about the sword itself.

I understand the symbolism, it's not lost on me. I'm pointing out it's selfish. And I'd still rather Ruby's heart break in the moment and not in the aftermath.

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Ravell_Aqim•

Because it was the lead in for your point. Why is Jaune singled out?

I was responding to your point from the OP that:

And I can’t get behind his grief, I feel so indifferent about it. The human connection is missing.

The point being you don't have to be super-close to someone to feel utterly terrible, even soiled, by having to do that. And yes, I think that would be true for those of our other heroes who'd have been willing to do it. I don't know that my grandfather was super close to the man he had to kill. Actively killing a friend, even one who's not particularly close, is going to be a wrenching experience, and one different in complexion from losing a close friend. And I'm not sure feeling bad about that is terribly selfish - it's human. As for me as a viewer, I found I could feel for Penny and for Jaune at the same time (and found voice acting for Jaune's scream to be spot on). As for where this takes people in terms of future character developments, that I don't know.

And I'd still rather Ruby's heart break in the moment and not in the aftermath.

Okay, having seen some of your other comments on this thread along these lines, I think I can see some of what you mean in terms of wanting proper closure - Winter at least got that, but Ruby didn't. I can understand that.

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mrwantonVP of the Jaune simp Fanclub•

Spoilers. Her heart breaks when she stumbles upon Penny's lifeless corpse.

1
AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

It's a very likely scenario. Not a particularly satisfying though, not much interaction can happen with a corpse.

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[deleted]•

Hey, at least now Jaune and Pyrrha have something more to bond over.

Seriously though I have mixed feelings about Jaune doing it, and personally I feel it was a damned if you do damned if you don't momment for CRWBY. While yes, Ruby killing her would have been more emotional and a better end to their arc, I just know a bunch of people in FNDM would be complaining about how Ruby had closer relationship with Penny so she should have got the powers or people would complain that Jaune didn't come over first to save Penny. Having a guy do the deed insured that the one target who Penny selected made the most sense.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

I feel it was a damned if you do damned if you don't momment for CRWBY

I can agree there when it comes to Penny's death. Though I would rather them go all in than folding on a good hand.

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mrwantonVP of the Jaune simp Fanclub•

In an ideal scenario, I think it makes more sense for Nora or Weiss to do the deed as they have more of a bond with Penny/Winter for this to work. Especially Nora given her trying to find her own place in the world.

With that said, I honestly don't think the scene was framed in a manner where this is really about Jaune at all. This was Penny's own choice. It's a mean spirited conclusion and I totally get why one would be upset but this was never not about Penny's own character storyline. She's more of a main character than anyone throughout Atlas and after the Pyrrha stuff I honestly do not think they'd repeat a storyline that controversial ever again.

And while I perfectly understand the caution when it comes to CRWBY with things like this they aren't unaware at what they are writing.

Penny's entire character begins and ends with Ruby Rose. Almost every scene she's been in throughout this entire show has to do with Ruby. Her long-awaited song is all about her friendship with Ruby.

Did Jaune need a story sooner or later? Sure he was kinda just wasting away doing nothing. But I honestly don't think Penny's death is it. I feel like the only real tie-in there is with him is simply guilt at having to tell Ruby this and that's really about it. There's no real room for an extended angst fest there because there was no real relationship there beyond surface level.

If Jaune were gonna receive extended focus from mercy killing a maiden I feel as if crwby would have set that up earlier but they didn't they kept Penny's relationship with Ruby as the main focus throughout. I will say that overall I think this does work well as an overall story mark for Jaune but I don't think it's setup that way.

I have no doubt this will affect him but they made Ruby's entire main relationship this year revolve around Penny and to be frank I see no reason as to why they'd take that away from her given that the whole gist of V9 seems to be licking their wounds from the Atlas fallout.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

With that said, I honestly don't think the scene was framed in a manner where this is really about Jaune at all.

Zeroing in on this - that's the problem. The one who picks up the sword should matter going forward because they're carrying the ramifications of Penny's sacrifice. I don't feel that Jaune is the best option for that. It's like he just an emotional baggage carrier, rather than an impactful, meaningful choice.

And while I perfectly understand the caution when it comes to CRWBY with things like this they aren't unaware of what they are writing.

Of course, they're aware of what they're writing, it doesn't mean it always stands up though. Particularly in the moment.

Penny's entire character begins and ends with Ruby Rose.

It doesn't end with Ruby, that's my point. Ruby isn't involved with it, she's dumped unceremoniously into the void least she's in danger of having a climax in a finale. Penny never really gets the reaffirming moment with Ruby about her humanity. The entire time Ruby is telling her she has a soul, getting a human body shouldn't be the end to that. What's lacking is Penny finally acknowledging Ruby's sentiments in a (hopefully) heart-wrenching moment. That's what's lacking, a real climax to their relationship.

Did Jaune need a story sooner or later? Sure he was kinda just wasting away doing nothing. But I honestly don't think Penny's death is it.

It's an easy conflict, but it could be dropped, sure. It might be as simple as Ruby just agreeing with him it was the only course of action. But that still begs the question; why not Ruby?

I have no doubt this will affect him but they made Ruby's entire main relationship this year revolve around Penny and to be frank I see no reason as to why they'd take that away from her

It's taken away from her regardless, so why not involve her in that? I rather have her shoulder those direct ramifications of her actions, than holding conflict at an arm’s length. Ruby needs consequences that hit home because she could only blame herself.

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mrwantonVP of the Jaune simp Fanclub•

Not that literal. I mean it begins and ends with Ruby in the sense that her impact as a character always revolves around her friendship with her. I don't think Ruby had to be there for that message to be conveyed

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

She needs to be there for the climax if it's meant to have real meaning. Good or bad ending.

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mrwantonVP of the Jaune simp Fanclub•

Jaune wasn't around for Pyrrha's death and it still had meaning tho. Why can't it be the same here?

7
MightyDickTwist•

See, this all just reminds me of Ruby seeing Pyrrha die. There was no follow up there about this one... and really, there shouldn't have been one, Pyrrha had nothing to do with Ruby's character.

People complained that the show just traumatized Ruby's character for no actual follow up (rightly so), and people responded that Ruby had nothing to do with Pyrrha's character so she shouldn't have that focus (rightly so).

This is why one of the criticisms of the earlier volumes is the lack of interactions between Pyrrha and Ruby. Or, you could simply acknowledge that Ruby shouldn't have been the one to see Pyrrha die. Have some other way for her to gain her Silver Eyes powers. Maybe she sees Cinder about to kill Jaune, who saw Pyrrha die.

And we have a real risk of this happening here again. Jaune had nothing to do with Penny. There is no reason for us to believe that he'll get increased focus from this aside from just probably being traumatized offscreen. If they do focus on that, people will criticise V7&V8 for the lack of interactions between Jaune and Penny... and there is absolutely nothing to respond to that, because it'd be hard to argue against it.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

That's a pretty fair comparison. It does feel like a mistake repeated.

3
TheLargeLoudMan•

That could have been a deliberate thing. Ruby was the one to see Pyrrha die, despite Jaune being the person she was closest to, and then Jaune was the one to see Penny die even though Ruby was the one she was closest and the only other person around in both cases was Cinder.

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MightyDickTwist•

Oh, I do think it's intentional. Both involve them failing to use their semblances to save people.

Those two can now bond over how much they want to kill Cinder, so that's a thing.

2
GladiusNocturnoAll Grimm are naked. Think about it•

I'm gonna bring one of my points from our conversation from yesterday.

I feel that if it was going to be Jaune, this shouldn't have been the start of his new story arc, it should have been the middle. The musical chair prevented Jaune from getting his own story in Atlas which is what he needed to enhance this moment.

Would Clover's death be impactful if it was Qrow's first time meeting him? I don't think so, Clover's death required Qrow and him to have a bond.

While it's true that Penny could have chosen Winter even if Ruby did the kill, honestly, you can avoid raising questions by cutting the middle man and have Winter do it. Which is another issue I have. Why Winter? Penny and Winter had a bond in V7 but they should have had more interactions in V8 to seal the deal.

Ruby, Weiss, Nora or Winter were better options than Jaune.

I still don't think it was wrong to give it to Jaune though because it fits his character pretty will to have him do something completely opposite to his core value, protecting people. Having the healer take an innocent life is tragic. But it needed more set up, it needed a better frame work and a better execution and as it is, this has to change Jaune's character in a way Pyrrha's death didn't. Otherwise we fall in what you said last time, that it feels like repeating Pyrrha's death for Jaune's story.

Edit: Honestly, if they were going to give it to Jaune with no set up, they could avoided a lot of discord by having Jaune try to heal Penny but being unable to and Penny dying of her wounds but still giving the powers to Winter. The emotional focus is given to Winter and Penny and Jaune still has the trauma of not being able to save her not even with his strong Semblance. It's not as dark or shocking and it's easier to overcome, but it's also the right amount of compromising for the little set up it had.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

I feel that if it was going to be Jaune, this shouldn't have been the start of his new story arc, it should have been the middle.

Sorry again, I didn't have time to offer my thoughts to that yesterday, meatloaf is surprisingly hard to make. But yeah, I agree it shouldn't be an arc kicked off in relative isolation. Character arcs should linked like a chain, each one securely connected to the next. Jaune over V7-8 has no links in his chain. I wouldn't have an issue (besides personal preferences) if he had a solid arc over the volume that tied into this moment with Penny. Instead, it does feel like he won at musical chairs and snatched Ruby's seat.

There's also the element of connecting characters. Clover is a good example, his death has more meaning through his connection to Qrow. While Vine's death lacks any real impact because he's not connected to main characters. Even the bond with his teammates isn't well addressed. Jaune lacked a connection with Penny beyond allies and acquaintances. He mostly acted like her charger, there's not enough of a bond to get behind. So I don't feel nearly as sorry for him as I would for one of RWBY or even Nora.

While it's true that Penny could have chosen Winter even if Ruby did the kill, honestly, you can avoid raising questions by cutting the middle man and have Winter do it.

Questions are still being raised - like why not Weiss? She's in trouble and right there. But it does come done to delivery, I agreed. If it was Ruby, Penny could've started the transfer not unlike how the Winter Maiden did with her. So it would come down to dialogue, timing and urgency. Misdirection would have it's place too - make us think Ruby got the powers.

So I agree there would be questions, but there are satisfying ways to mitigate the impact.

I still don't think it was wrong to give it to Jaune though because it fits his character pretty will to have him do something completely opposite to his core value, protecting people.

I do get what they're trying for, but it doesn't carry it alone. Jaune has had issues in protecting people before, he has a completed arc around it. He even learnt to accept people's choices, it's how he let's the anger and guilt over Pyrrha's death go. Set up aside, do we need to revisit that? How much reinforcement do we need? Can't Jaune progress as a character without the death of a young women?

3
GladiusNocturnoAll Grimm are naked. Think about it•

Sorry again, I didn't have time to offer my thoughts to that yesterday, meatloaf is surprisingly hard to make.

You don't have to apologize. But Sorry I didn't answer earlier. I was in a double date that turned out to be a double and a half date. Weird night, might have met an incestuous poli relationship that makes a damned good guacamole.

Anyway. Yeah, glad we agree. And yeah, I was just trying to simply things to try to make it work without much set up but in any case, what makes or breaks the current events we have in canon is how different will the direction of Jaune's character development will be from the one he got from Pyrrha. We are stuck with this decision, there is no going back, but what I want to know is in what way can Jaune's character grow that is different from the growth he already had with Pyrrha's death. Had he had a relationship with Penny, not only would the event be more meaningful, but also the direction of his character arc would be more clear. If all they are doing is backtracking his arc with Pyrrha's death, then this was a huge mistake, if they have something else to teach him then I'm interested.

In any case I maintain my statement. There were better options than Jaune and if it was going to be him they needed to set it up.

Hope you enjoyed your meatloaf ;)

1
AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

might have met an incestuous poli relationship that makes a damned good guacamole.

Wha..?

Anyway. Yeah, glad we agree.

Yep, we pretty much agree. For future character development, I can only guess how it would handled. There is easy potential for it to be a slog, though. That's my biggest fear in the end. It's why I would prefer Ruby in Jaune's place, and have her deal with the repercussions in a more tidy package of consequences. CRWBY is stronger with character focus. Though it isn't impossible for Jaune to get good development, just that the chances are slim. It already feels like a chore, tbh.

Honestly, some solid set up would've done wonders. Not only for the moment, but to give direction to the fallout. So yeah, I can agree with your statement.

I'm not a big meat eater, but the meatloaf was pretty tasty :)

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GladiusNocturnoAll Grimm are naked. Think about it•

Wha..?

Like I said, super weird night. Lots of wine and guacamole. XD

3
cruel-oathWaiting for the title characters to be good again•

This is the first time I’ve wanted to drop and its so conflicting. Its not even necessarily about Pennys character even though I think they did her dirty. It’s just Jaune and how he of course had to fall into the void. I can only hope he’s separated so they can develop RWBYs dynamic but I’m not getting my hopes up

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

Admittedly, I was disappointed he fell too. The volume has yet to begin and already he feels like a fifth wheel. I like Jaune as a character, and do think he needs a good arc, but this doesn't feel good.

2
cruel-oathWaiting for the title characters to be good again•

I almost want to joke and say they pander to Jaune fans considering the moms scene and the angst they give him

-5
kreankorm•

I agree. I think that had it been Ruby, it would have been a much more compelling moment. Which begs the question: why didn't that happen if it was so heavily hinted at? Why write Juane into that position at all? I hope we'll see why in V9.

2
VaniellisArkos Paladin•

I love Jaune, but I think that Nora should have been the one with Penny.

He already had to suffer Pyrrha's loss, while Nora was trying to understand her place in the world and talked with Nora.

2
Player-RedScorching Caress•

If Ruby was there the power would go to her, and that ain't happening, so it was the only way

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rwbylov27•

Am I the only one that feels that she took Jaunes sword to do it herself? The suicide hotline wasn't only for Vines sacrifice imo

1
iamsandwitch•

People, Penny is a flat character, she doesn't have some emotional disconnect or growing up she has to do. She invokes change in the story she doesn't get changed by it why are yall so adamant about trying to find a positive character arc for a character that isn't supposed to ha e one.

Penny has been comfortable about her humanity for a while, she doesn't have any unresolved emotional issues, her views and ideals of the world don't get shaken up, like what do yall want from her? Not every character arc is dynamic. It's like trying to make a character arc for glynda goodwitch like what is she supposed to grow up on?

1
AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

Penny has a positive arc, it revolves around her developing humanity.

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iamsandwitch•

She... never develops humanity, she is human, she has never had a problem with who she is. Her aura is nothing but a confirmation, the message and progression towards the revelation of her innate soulfulness was clearly indicated a while ago.

2
AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

She does struggle with who and what she is, it's highlighted through her relationships with Ruby and Winter.

1
iamsandwitch•

Well yeah but she doesn't struggle because of her humanity/ being a robot. She struggles because she's something a lot of people are after and want to control/kill/protect. The actual message of her being more than a robot was apparent from the start. Her struggles are a problem of influence and power rather than one of personal growth

1
Mr_TouchMyNubWRRRRRRRRY•

When I think on it... It works better with Jaune killing Penny as there is a high chance that if a girl killed her, the Maiden powers would go to the person who euthanatized her.

Imagine if Yang killed Penny... If Penny said a simple ‘Thank You’ to Yang before dying, the powers go to Yang. If Jaune, Oscar, or Ren kill Penny, the last girl in Penny’s thoughts would be the next WM. In this case, it was Winter.

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AlarmingStandardOPPryde•

Chance isn't that high if Penny is concentrating, but gender doesn't matter for that risk. If she thought of Jaune then the power goes to a random young woman in the end. Man or woman, Penny can mess up if she thinks of the person holding the sword over her heart.

It's not the last girl, it's the last person in her thoughts that triggers where the powers go next.

2
N7ASWCC♫And my mama been a savage/B*tch I got this sh*t from Raven♫•

So many stans counter with "can't Jaune do anything for once!?" while neglecting the fact that this is the third female character that had to be injured for Jaune to do something. I've never seen anything so blatantly misogynist since Supernatural.

-7
ClemPrime13haha silver eyes go woosh•

The vast majority of combat capable characters in RWBY are female, it’s just probability. You’re looking for a reason to shit on Jaune where none exists.

9
N7ASWCC♫And my mama been a savage/B*tch I got this sh*t from Raven♫•

Sure, whatever dude.

-6
ClemPrime13haha silver eyes go woosh•

It’s just the facts, I’m sorry they don’t agree with your narrative.

6
thelifebowlninja•

Doesn’t he heal them bc he has his semblance?

3
cruel-oathWaiting for the title characters to be good again•

No. He’s right. Pyrrha, Weiss (who had to lose a fight so Jaune can unlock his semblance to heal her aka for his development) and now Penny.

-3
thelifebowlninja•

Idk, I wouldn’t call it misogynistic I think this is a little extreme, probably more plot convenient.

3
cruel-oathWaiting for the title characters to be good again•

I don’t really agree with that part either, but that’s one of many issues that people have had with his character

0†
MyNameISaColouRPraying for your foolish soul•

Pretty sure Penny died for Winter, not Jaune. Winter is the character that's more affected by this, Penny's sacrifice was done for her. Jaune was just the middle man.

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