Source
r/guns•
dVnt

Slide catch vs slide release?

Hey Folks,

I was on the phone with a guy from Sig, about a problem with my SP2022. I was explaining the problem and the Sig guy made a point to correct my usage of the term "slide release" with "slide catch". According to him, the difference is that you're not supposed to manually actuate the release lever of gun with a "slide catch", instead you are supposed to pull the slide back a bit to release the slide catch and let the slide rack forward at full speed. I asked him in a much less confrontational manner, ~"So, are you telling me I shouldn't be releasing the slide with the lever which was specifically designed to be actuated with my right thumb?" and he seemed to kind of snub the question: "Yeah, I mean you can, but that's not what it's for." Obviously, I asked him to clarify, because I wanted to make sure I'm not putting any undue/non-designed stress on the weapon and he acted like it wasn't a problem.

So, what's the deal? Am I missing something or was he just taking the opportunity to be pedant?

Also, the problem I'm having the weapon is that it will infrequently end up back in DA mode(hammer down) after firing a round or actuating the slide release/catch.

Any insight?

Posted Nov 21, 2011, 5:25 PM UTC

220
Centrist_gun_nut•

So, what's the deal? Am I missing something or was he just taking the opportunity to be pedant?

He was taking the opportunity to explain that he's an ass. Some people, including Sig Academy instructors, think that the slide should be released by cycling the slide. Both methods are valid, but some CSR has no idea what the original designers were thinking.

Also, the problem I'm having the weapon is that it will infrequently end up back in DA mode(hammer down) after firing a round or actuating the slide release/catch.

The term for this is "hammer-follow" and it is pretty fucking dangerous. You should call them up and yell "hammer-follow" until they fix it.

8
dVntOP•

"Hammer-follow" -- got it, thanks! I was sure that there had to be a specific term for this but I could not find it. You'd think a few hours of googling "accidental hammer drop", and similar keywords, that I would have been able to resolve the term myself.

...and yes the potential for an AD did not escape me.

They're sending me a UPS label as soon as I get back home and give them the SN off the gun.

5
thebigslide-1•

Wait, is there a round chambered when the gun ends up in SA mode? If that's the case than it's a delayed unlock which is not dangerous and much harder to fix. Hammer follow is when the firing pin is sitting down on a chambered round after the previous shot. There will usually be a dent in the primer also. It can lead to a FA burst that empties the magazine and is caused by the sear not engaging or the disconnector not functioning properly.

A delayed unlock leads to the slide not having the inertia to pick up the next cartridge or fully cock the action, but the previous case is ejected or rechambered. It's usually caused by poor finishing of the barrel or lug.

1
dVntOP•

You mean DA mode? Yes, sometimes, but there doesn't have to be as well. IIRC, there are internal safeties which are designed to prevent it from going FA or having an AD in such a situation... then again it was designed not to have hammer follow as well, so...

This is not a problem of enough energy in the action, and I know this for two different reasons.

  1. There has never been any other kind of malfunction: fail to feed; fail to extract; fail to eject. The gun ALWAYS fires and ALWAYS ejects the spent brass. And, given the geometry of this gun's design, it is impossible to eject the brass but not have the slide come back far enough to charge the handle.

  2. It will sometimes suffer hammer follow just from releasing the slide, as seen here.

This leads me to believe it is definitely a sear problem of some kind, however the internal safeties should prevent it from an AD or going FA... but don't worry, I'm not taking any chances.

1
thebigslide-1•

the internal safeties should prevent it

Fucking magical thinking. You think you know what you're talking about? Name the safety that prevents a discharge under those conditions? No? Firing pin block? So if you've just fired a shot, your finger is still depressing the trigger enough to make that hammer fall onto the pin onto a live primer. The only think preventing it from going off is the inertia of the slide and your limp wrist...

It's not a sear problem, it's a disconnector problem.

Don't shoot that gun until it's fixed or someone is going to get hurt (probably you).

1
allitode•

Potato, potahto.

To expand on what this guy was saying, some people (myself included) prefer to "power stroke" a semi-auto pistol to get it into battery. There are lots of given reasons to do this, but the reason I do it is because I have access to several different types of weapons and this works across all the platforms I have access to. Glock, M&P, FNX, P22, 1911 all work, whereas they each have their slide release lever in a slightly different location. It also is beneficial in clearing several malfunctions on its own, and is used in every malfunction drill I run.

3
dVntOP•

To clarify, I understand what he was saying in that I understand the both methods work with many/most automatic handgun designs. I was just trying to figure out why he would take the time to point this out to me if it wasn't really relevant to the conversation after all.

In any case, now that I've added the term "hammer follow" to my vocabulary, I can see that I'm not the only one having this problem.

Many other people are also having a problem with the slide locking back before the magazine is empty, but I'm 99% certain that this was the result of using a grip that allows your thumb to apply upward pressure to that slide release lever.

All in all, I'm not as happy about my purchase as I originally was, and I thinking about cutting my losses and just selling the damn thing.

2
allitode•

That's unfortunate. Hope you find something that works for you.

2
dVntOP•

Yeah, we'll see what Sig can do with it. I was looking at a Glock 19 G4 as a possible replacement (and switch over to shooting 9x19) but they seems like a lemon as well right now...

/sigh

1
Frothyleet•

I don't have any experience with the SP2022 but there are certainly some guns that really were designed with a catch rather than release, that are difficult to do anything but slingshot. If you can use the release without any trouble though it's probably fine either way.

But yeah, get that problem fixed.

2
hugh_janus•

I'll let Rob Pincus explain the rationale behind calling it a slide lock instead of a slide release but in a customer service situation the correction was in poor form.

2
dVntOP•

Right. Again, my concern and confusion stemmed from the fact that the Sig CSR seemed to imply that it is the nature of the design of the mechanism itself which is inherently different, not the tactical philosophy behind its use. Overall, this video further clarifies that the distinction is not necessarily mechanical, but tactical.

2
hugh_janus•

Yep, I don't think I've seen a design where it's use as a release would be a true problem but from tactical standpoint I'll try to teach good habits and would not let an employee of mine, in a service capacity, (not educational) treat a customer poorly.

BTW keep at them regarding the malfunction, that could be a potential disaster waiting to happen!

1
[deleted]•

Some guy at the range told me the same thing about the Ruger mark series.

The idea is that friction will wear down the slide stop if you use it when the slide is pressing on it. If you instead pull back the slide, release the slide stop, then release the slide there is no friction. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not though.

2
hipsterdufus•

There really is a difference between a slide lock and a slide release. One is large and comfortable and easy to manipulate to release the slide. The other is hard to manipulate is small and not comfortable to put pressure on. They will both in fact release the slide when enough force is applied. One was designed for this, one was not.

2
dVntOP•

...Could you provide me with a link to the specifications which qualify either as a slide lock or slide release?^/s

IOW: that seems a bit subjective to be of much use.

1
hipsterdufus•

I have this

1
dVntOP•

Yes, as I am saying. The difference between a slide release and a slide catch is purely semantics -- this is apparent because it is the philosophy of the shooter that determines the term used, not the design of the mechanism. Most of them are designed to be manually released. How you choose to use it and the philosophy behind those tactics are a different subject altogether.

1
[deleted]•

He is absolutely right. He is reinforcing the correct name to give you a tip on how to use your pistol in a defensive situation. The catch is small and easy to miss in a high stress situation. Only ever function the way you train, I never use it as a slide release. I only ever pull the slide back so if I ever have to do it in combat I've trained my muscle memory only one method.

2