I recently watched a video illustrating how jeff Jarretts reign of terror was way worse then Hunters. Pretty much dude to the constant ref bumps and overbooking of his match’s whilst not putting a lot more young guys over But I never here much about this reign
Posted May 13, 2021, 11:32 AM UTC
I honestly enjoyed both. Fuck me I guess.
Triple H's ring work was fine. It was his boring has hell 20 minute segments (where he only-ugh had 3 minutes of content-ugh) that opened every show for 2-3 years straight that were horrible to live through.
In the moment I didn't mind triple hs run, seeing it in retrospect I can see how it turned people off. My only issues were Booker T's loss and Kane not beating him (because I was a massive Kane fan and he was so over at the time).
Jarrett's was so horrible though, even at the time I said "the matches all end the same, and who cares about Jarrett?"
Jarrett easily, as others have said HHH is a legit main eventer. JJ is a guy who has been pushed as one but isn't really. Plus his matches were so repetitive and boring. HHH can have good matches
and it always seemed anytime TNA wanted to reset to another challenger, they would just throw the belt on Jeff. In order to be a champ you really had to beat Jeff, and they would go out of their way to get Jeff the title in order to do that.
Exactly, with several screwy finishes along the way as well
Jarrett easily.
One of them was a legitimate main event
Not drawing wise he wasn’t
Nor did shawn michaels or Brett hart in the mid 90s, so do you think they weren't a main event level?
Bret was a far bigger draw than triple h was
Tell that to the others not me, hack even rick flair admit it he wasn't a big draw
Jeff Jarrett for sure. Because for as bad as HHH's was, we can at least say he made 2 future superstars in Dave Batista and Randy Orton (latter is ironic considering he got a pretty bad burial as soon as he became WHC) and because HHH was actually over as a main event guy. JJ was a good midcard guy who was the booker too and always made himself the center of attention. 2 Words: MONTY. BROWN.
But I won't argue if you think HHH's was worse.
Was that part of HHH's reign of terror? Everyone mentions his 2003 reign as the reign of terror.
Dude, every time someone brings up Monty Brown he is one of those guys I really am like "Dude I miss him and what he could have become"
And for me there is not many of those.
HHH fucking buried the shit out of Orton, what are you on?
Orton at least recovered, So did Booker and RVD. Until guys like Angle/Christian came pretty much it was Jarrett the only guy worth anything when it came to the NWA belt.
I mean, they're both pretty terrible for their own reasons, so it'd probably just come down to personal preference.
On Triple H's side, you have the fact that he always came out looking like gold at the expense of taking down guys that people actually wanted to see make the leap from that midcard/upper midcard level, like RVD or Booker T.
On Jarrett's, I think the biggest problem was that he basically put himself there. I dunno how obvious it was to the smark community that Jeff was the co-owner of the company but IIRC, they didn't acknowledge it until the mid/late 2000s, maybe around the time he left to take care of Jill, someone correct me on that time frame. Even if you didn't know he basically put himself in the position, a lot of people went by the old saying "He broke a million guitars and never drew a dime".
Everyone knew Jarrett was a co-owner of the company. He and his dad founded it.
I'd go with HHH, because HHH hurt a lot of careers on the rise during that time.
Bubba Ray Dudley started racking up impressive wins on Raw, he had a few weeks of great matches and suddenly he's not on TV anymore. Scuttlebutt around the lockers rooms according to the dirtsheets was HHH wanted him buried because he didn't want to work a program with Bubba.
RVD was buried because his promo work was not great, he did the spit water gag and that is all people remember. RVD was shackled promo wise by WWE, he was never "great" on the stick but some of his ECW promos were great.
Randy Orton - Whew, Randy Orton was screwed by HHH royally. He wins the belt and the very next night HHH turns on him. That was awful booking because no one wanted Randy Orton as a face at that time, he was getting over being a heel and trying to crowbar him in a face against Evolution was just dumb. It took years for his career to recover after HHH cut his legs out from under him. That title win should have shown he had arrived, instead it was awful.
Booker T - RACISM! That's what gets heels over, right? Well lets do a racism angel and the racist....wins? In dominant fashion? With one pedigree that he waits nearly 20 seconds to cover Booker T and get the pin?
Goldberg - A one year contract that he could not wait to finish and all because he was booked against HHH and made to look stupid his entire time in WWE. It was Goldberg! He should have just plowed through guys. HHH should not hold a pinfall win over Goldberg. Then when Goldberg held the title, who was the focus despite being off filming Blade Trinity? HHH with taped promos about a bounty on Goldberg! All people could talk about HHH's bounty.
Eugene - Despite it being in awful taste, Eugene got over with the fans. Can't have that, here comes a HHH feud where he and William Regal are destroyed by HHH.
No matter what Jarrett did, he did not hurt as many careers as HHH did during his reign of Terror, watch WWE during this time and the ONLY people who had competitive matches with HHH were HBK and Nash. He lost to Benoit but he HAD to because of how much flak he was getting from the dirt sheets, but he made Benoit irrelevant after his title win because TV was focused on HHH vs Eugene and not the guy who was the champion.
At the very worst HHH drop the belt on occasion. Jarrett was literally booking himself as champion for about 3 years. In those 3 years I think he may have had a grand total of 3-4 months of not being champion?
And TNA was still a growing company. It doesn't help you trying to get over talent by basically having the same guy nobody likes end every pay per view on some BS swerve.
What planet are you living on buddy? That's exactly what HHH did. He even dominated Raw while Chris Benoit was champion for a few months, and otherwise he was champion the whole three years pretty much
Orton, Benoit, Shawn, Goldberg, and eventually Batista got runs with the belt. HHH also had much better matches and at least got Orton and Batista higher on the card. Jarrett matches we're washing rinse and repeating itself. Overbooked garbage main events damaging all the young talent they were trying to bring up and all the names they brought in from Nash, DDP, Hardy, etc.
HHH was bad but literally booking yourself to be champion for your own self entitlement because you can is bullshit.
I mean I can see why Jarrett did it, and don't get me wrong I am not a Jarrett fan, but he was building his company and the best person to be on top during that time is the guy at the head of the company who isn't going to run for better money elsewhere. HHH was on top not because he was THE guy but because he thought he was THE guy, no one else was allowed to get near the top. If they did, they were booked as second class to HHH, until he got the belt back. The Reign of Terror only ended after Batista moved to Smackdown and HHH took time off.
Jarrett had himself as the champion to have a top heel leading the company and he was best qualified because he was a fantastic heel but he was a fantastic heel who works with the faces before they move onto the top heel. So I agree he should not be on top but I understand why he was. I will never understand why HHH was on top of Raw, how that logically made sense and why he was just handed the Big Gold Belt. There was no tournament, he was just given it. Then to top all that off, they merged the IC Belt with it, so there really was only 1 singles belt on Raw for a long time. Oh yeah and for good measure let's mention Katie Vic and the unmasking of Kane. Kane was fine with the mask but nope, they unmask him to show no scars despite on one episode of Raw DX and the McMahons pull off Kane's mask and take a picture and blackmail Kane to work for them that night or they would show the picture on TV. (The episode ends with a GTV Segment showing Patterson and Briscoe talking about how the camera screwed up and the picture never came out and Mr McMahon as going to be mad at them, Kane saw this and turned on the McMahons and D-X)
Dude, there were literally chants on TV saying "drop the belt". You're not making a top heel when you're literally beating everybody in the company for years.
So how are you making any stars in this company that still in his developing stage by beating young guys like Monty Brown, Jeff Hardy, Ron Killings or any of your big signings? Like it was just dumb having every pay-per-view with Jarrett swerving someone or breaking a guitar. And when you do that for multiple years it's clear that you're only doing it for yourself benefit and the fans will catch on to that.
The structure of his match didnt help as well. With low blows, ref bumps, guitar shots, outside interference and kicking out of finisher. And he still wins.
Okay I will give you that one. Jarrett did end up destroying some other talent. I was a big Monty Brown fan. Also he was born and bred in Memphis, so Memphis style booking is what he knows hence the screwy finishes, it's how Jerry Lawler kept winning the belt the hundred or so times he did it Memphis.
Okay maybe Jarrett's reign was worse for TNA, and their PPV model was important to them. So with a company on the rise, yeah I can see that.
However HHH's reign did kill a ton of fan interest.
Bubba Ray Dudley started racking up impressive wins on Raw, he had a few weeks of great matches and suddenly he's not on TV anymore. Scuttlebutt around the lockers rooms according to the dirtsheets was HHH wanted him buried because he didn't want to work a program with Bubba.
Bubba Ray Fucking Dudley was never going to be a main eventer in WWE. What the fuck you guys smoking?
Bubba also injured him during a title match on raw in 02
And Eugene. So unbelievable that Triple H can just squash him right? 😂
He got over with the fans, I didn't say he was going to rise to the top of the card, but fans dug him and suddenly there goes HHH wading in and destroying him. Everyone knew that Eugene was going to lose, it was like the Bully picking on the smaller kid, and no one stands up for the smaller kid. This follows real life, the Bully never gets taken down, he just beats the smaller kid down and walks away.
Why did HHH need to feud with Eugene if it wasn't just to squash him and get rid of that popularity? It certainly didn't benefit Eugene. It also was the focus on Raw! Benoit was their champion, someone who people were behind had the belt, but shove him aside HHH has to feud with a mentally challenged person!
Eugene was over as a comedy act, got squashed by Triple H and booed in a match he was supposed to be the face in, wins the tag team championship after this feud, and yet Triple H buries him unnecessarily. Starting with the premise that Eugene was over is a crock of shit
No he was never going to be main event level at that time, but he was putting on impressive matches every week on Raw and fans were getting behind him. Had they let him build and build, maybe six months to a year later, he would be in an upper card level, who knows how his character and ring style might have developed? I remember watching Raw and seeing those matches and then a week later nothing. He's not on Raw, he's been pushed to the smaller shows. Bubba Ray was masterful in the ring and had the talent to get to the top if he had been given the chance, he could make the crowd cheer him and boo him.
Bubba Ray was masterful in the ring
MASTERFUL. Jesus Christ! Bubba Ray has been a subpar brawler his entire career and the only thing he's been good for is his big mouth and putting motherfuckers through tables.
I disagree, going through the Attitude Era, his tag matches were incredible because he could brawl but could pull off crazy moves and then his single matches post Dudley split you really got to see him go. His full nelson slam was incredible, he did a fall away slam that was great and he could sell like crazy. Watch some of his single matches in WWE and you can see he can work. He couldn't simply rely on brawling like in ECW, he could actually wrestle. If you don't like him fine, but the guy was a good wrestler and could control the crowd like very few could do.
RVD was buried because his promo work was not great, he did the spit water gag and that is all people remember. RVD was shackled promo wise by WWE, he was never "great" on the stick but some of his ECW promos were great.
How was any of that Hunter's fault? And RVD was far from "buried" ever in his WWE tenure (except when he cost himself the WWE and ECW Championships) . While I'll agree he was hot enough to warrant a World Heavyweight Championship reign in 2002/2003, the guy was constantly and consistently used at a high level.
Randy Orton - Whew, Randy Orton was screwed by HHH royally. He wins the belt and the very next night HHH turns on him. That was awful booking because no one wanted Randy Orton as a face at that time, he was getting over being a heel and trying to crowbar him in a face against Evolution was just dumb. It took years for his career to recover after HHH cut his legs out from under him. That title win should have shown he had arrived, instead it was awful.
Orton went from being a cool heel to a flat babyface with no real explanation. I remember that month long reign and he was booked poorly as a face. They took away everything people were enjoying of Orton at the time to try and make him a a good guy and it didn't work.
Booker T - RACISM! That's what gets heels over, right? Well lets do a racism angel and the racist....wins? In dominant fashion? With one pedigree that he waits nearly 20 seconds to cover Booker T and get the pin?
The booking in that feud was garbage. Can't say anything else otherwise.
but he made Benoit irrelevant after his title win because TV was focused on HHH vs Eugene and not the guy who was the champion.
Did Triple H do that or the writing/booking staff?
Who was HHH married to? Stephanie McMahon Who was head of creative? Stephanie McMahon. Pretty sure he was very heavily involved in any creative decisions regarding Raw during that time. RVD was buried because he was pushed down the card until he was no longer in the title picture, the dude could have had a few month title run to freshen up the title picture on Raw.
So to answer your question, Triple H told the writing staff what to do and they did it.
I have a lot respect for what Triple H has done in the last few years with NXT, reaching out to smaller feds and building some bridges is to be respected but there is a reason it was called his Reign of Terror.
If HHH wasn’t married to Stephanie and Vince’s son-in-law he’d be a midcarder.
Maybe, I think he would be as Jim Cornette said once, HHH is the second to top heel, he works with the face to get him ready to face THE guy, but HHH saw himself as THE guy instead.
(Yes I know Cornette is stuckin the past and has said a lot of bad shit, but at times he makes a valid point, you just have to wade through the muck to get to it.)
Wasn't married to Steph when he first became Champion. I don't think they were even in a relationship yet.
I swear to god you guys are so consumed by Ruthless Aggression era nostalgia that you will never admit HHH was fucking terrible
you will never admit HHH was fucking terrible
You deciphered my entire opinion on Triple H during that time on me disagreeing with some of his points? Man, you're good. Next time, try asking instead of jumping to conclusions.
And making such a statements like
I swear to god you guys are so consumed by Ruthless Aggression era nostalgia
Doesn't add points to you're argument.
Agree 100%. Plus it happened in WWE which was at the center of the wrestling world. Not many people paid attention to TNA.
Not many people paid attention to TNA.
I recall TNA getting groundswell. A friend of mine kept asking me to check it out. Want to know what turned me away initially? When I found out Double J was running the company AND made himself its champion.
TNA wasn’t a threat to WWE. After the collapse of WCW, there wasn’t any other credible alternative to WWE. TNA was always the NBA G League of Minor Leagues compared to WWE being the NBA or MLB. Jeff Jarrett was a midcarder at best at WWE.
Yeah, I know.
Doesn't change the fact that Jarrett being the top guy was one of the reasons I didn't give the show a watch. And from my times on wrestling forums during his reign, I wasn't the only one.
Just as others have pointed out in the thread, there was complaints back in 2003 of Jarrett constantly going over newer and more interesting talent.
Double J
[deleted]
As much as I despise the reign of terror, at least Triple H had several memorable matches during it.
Considering he was on top for three years there's really not that many at all. He also had way more outright stinkers than Jarrett who mostly just meh the whole time.
Always and anything Jarrett was always shit.
Triple H's, for the sole reason that he didn't have a funeral for Team 3D, or a planet named after him.
The way Jarrett's match was structured made me hate it more than it probably should have been.
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I'd say Triple H. In the grand scheme if things, for many people Jeff's reign of terror didn't really change anything, TNA still grew as a company when it happened. Whereas WWE clearly stalled, if not regressed as a company compared to the Attitude Era boom. Had Triple H shared the spotlight and put RVD or Booker over, that may have been a different story.
I liked Triple H's reign of terror. So, it is Jarrett by default although I understand why he was the guy in early TNA with few having concrete contracts.
Jarrett
I still get triggered hearing the intro to Jarrett's theme.
SHUV IT SQUAD!
Also Jeff's is worse.
Jarretts - HHH got a few people over - Goldberg/Benoit/Batista - Jarrett was a waterdown tribute act to HHH (and Cody's doing the same)
Jarrett because at least Triple H was a legit main event level talent.
Mike Graham said it best about Jeff Jarrett, "He broke 6,000 guitars, never drew a dime."
At least Jeff got to break 6,000 guitars. Mike Graham didn't get to do that and he never drew a dime.
Everyone knows who Jeff Jarrett is. But who the fuck is Mike Graham?
A WCW road agent who bore a lot of grudges. I believe he was fired for saying that he would have Chris Benoit's head on a stick were it his ex-wife who Benoit were seeing (purportedly, he didn't think much of Kevin Sullivan, who was part of the creative team, being as hands-off as he could be when it came to his ex-wife Nancy and Chris).
He was then kind of forgotten by the wrestling world after that until news of his suicide broke.
HHH was never that except in 2000. He was utterly boring as fuck the whole period.
Also funny you mention drawing when HHH was a notorious anti-draw most of his career, again except for 2000