Source
r/relationship_advice•
erida

Chauvinist or Average Guy?

I'm 24 and have been dating a guy (25) for the past 8 months. We were recently talking about life/future goals and naturally the topic of marriage and family came up. He strongly believes in 'gender roles' - men go out and work while women stay at home. He said that he wanted his wife to work part-time (max 3 days a week) and for her primary role to be house duties and looking after the kids. He also went on to say that he didn't think a woman could have a career and be a good mother, that she should pick one. I disagreed and he called me a feminist.

When I said I thought his beliefs were a little dated he told me that this is what a lot of men want in a wife but that they're too afraid to say it. Is this guy a chauvinist? Are these beliefs common amongst men? Should alarm bells be ringing or should I just go with it for now seeing as it's only been 8 months and I have no intention of getting married any time soon?

Posted Dec 17, 2011, 7:02 AM UTC

838
rebcart•

For me? Personally? Alarm bells as loud as raid sirens.

Feminist being used as an insult = run the hell out of there. Right now.

Here's a little thought experiment. If a woman can't have a career and be a good mother, then by default that also means a man can't have a career and be a good father. Alternatively, it means that women are incompetent compared to men, and if that's what he thinks of you you're unlikely to receive any respect from him other than a house-cleaning fucktoy. If that's all he wants, he can get a Roomba and a fleshlight.

24
MisoSoup•

a Roomba and a fleshlight.

Now, if we could only combine the two!

Seriously, great response though.

2
eridaOP•

I politely explained that I wasn't a feminist, just your garden variety modern woman.

Funnily enough, when I jokingly asked if we were gonna get married he jokingly responded "nah you're not house trained yet". He was all "what, it was a joke" but I can't help but think he was deadly serious.

0
rebcart•

Do you feel you deserve the right to vote? That you deserve the chance to be in the workforce on your own terms, and that when you do the same work as a man (equal difficulty, equal length of time in an equal job) you deserve the same amount of pay?

Congratulations! You're a feminist, like the vast majority of women who don't have self esteem issues or culturally-ingrained misogyny. And if you feel you have to hide that in order to have someone not attack you for it, especially an SO, that's not healthy.

24
beejeans13•

Ai... This little joke sends out more alarm bells than your original post. He's showing you his true colours. He's hiding out behind a joke, but he is dead serious. Run. Run far. Now.

9
JalapenoCheese•

I don't have a problem with people who prefer the woman (or either partner) staying home. The point is the choice. That's where feminism comes in, wanting women to able to choose rather than having no option but to stay home and raise kids. If you want to stay home with kids and obey your husband yadda yadda, there's nothing with that. You seem to have different opinions though, so maybe you're just not compatible in this area.

However, using feminist as an insult is ridiculous. Assuming he knows what other men want is ridiculous. Anyone who doesn't believe in gender equality is not someone I would want any of my loved ones to date, nor would I want them in my life. It's really your call. I don't think this is the norm among his generation though, and you shouldn't stay with him because you think the average guy thinks this way. I've certainly never dated any who did. It's also not the most financially realistic point of view these days unless he makes a good amount of money and/or you live in a rural area. I know here in California both parents usually work out of necessity. When one stays home, the other has to have quite a hefty salary and good job security. These things aren't as easy to come by as they used to be. That, or daycare is costs close to what one of the parents would make, so that parent just stays home to raise the kids.

8
eridaOP•

We're both in a career (same career) that will earn us decent cash in the future so finances wouldn't be an issue. But to me, that's beside the point. I'd like to think that if I choose to work 3 days a week it is because that's what I want and not because my husband expects it of me. I guess I don't mind that that's his ideal, that's what he wants. I just don't like that he assumes that by choosing to keep a career I'd be putting my children second.

2
beejeans13•

So why, if you are both in the same career, should you ve the one to give up yours?

I personally want to stay home with our kids when my SO and I decide the time is right. But I'd still work part time. That was a mutual decision that we discussed maturely. We talked about what out would look like if he stayed home and I kept my career. We also discussed what it would look like if we both kept our careers. The point was neither of us had artificial expectations of the other.

I would not stay with a guy that said the things that your SO does.

6
eridaOP•

I asked. He thinks that by asking him to take a day off and both of us work 4 days vs me work 3 and him 5 is me shirking my responsibilities as a mother..

1
beejeans13•

I think you already have your answer. He sounds fairly misogynistic... You should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

Now, lets say you move forward with this man. Lets also say you have 2 kids, a boy and a girl. Is this what you would want your son to say to his beloved? In this the type of son you'd want to raise? Would you want your son to see his father as an inspiration and treat you the same way?

Even worse, would you want your husband or son saying these things to your daughter?

Get out. His views don't match yours. To me that's a deal breaker and a red flag.

8
froderick•

Hell no, a lot of guys would want a woman who works so he doesn't have to pay for as much and can have more spending money for himself. This guy just seems so... outdated.

7
eridaOP•

I feel his view partly comes from the fact that his mother doesn't work and that she's always been home to look after him. He greatly values that (I would too) and he wants the same for his future kids. What upsets me is that he feels that working mothers are poorer mothers, as if they're disadvantaging their child by working.

0
equus007•

Has he asked you to change religions yet?

I know absolutely no males that want a stay at home mom for a bride.

6
eridaOP•

He actually has asked about religion.. that conversation didn't go so great either.

1
equus007•

Run and hide from the control freak. He wants a doll that will fill out his Stepford Wife fantasy and that doesn't sound like you. Coupling up entails a blending of ideals and from what you said it sounds like he will be a chunk of asphalt in your blender of love.

I wouldn't call him a chauvinist really though. He wants what he wants and people with "traditional views" often come under attack by people in our age group. I think he has just demonized feminism because it has seriously limited the number/quality of women that will be attracted to him.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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shizzy0•

Feminist is only used as an insult by chauvinists. Now you know and knowing is half the battle. GI JOE!

4
www777com•

What have families been doing for thousands of years? What ever it takes for the whole family to survive. I read some where that when the industrial revolution started, both parents worked until somewhere around the 1940's when one parent made enough money for one parent to stay home.

3
all2humanuk•

One way or another would be my opinion. I think that's the ideal setup for a family. Doesn't have to be the mother though could be the father but that kind of consistency is important in the kids early years.

2
wAnUs8•

My girlfriend does a lot of cooking but that's because she likes it and I usually work more than 12 hours a day. There is a difference between how things end up but when someone says things like

He also went on to say that he didn't think a woman could have a career and be a good mother, that she should pick one.

Well that is just wrong, dude sounds like an asshole.

2
eridaOP•

I'd be happy to cook too.. and clean and everything else that needs to be done. My philosophy is that I'm happy to do whatever needs to be done in order to keep my family and household safe and happy. If that means working 3 days then that's fine, but if I can get by on working 4 or 5 days because my husband is helping me around the house then why can't I? Do I have to cut my working hours in half before I can ask him to put a load of washing on?

2
rebcart•

Of course you don't have to cut your hours in half to ask him to put washing on... because don't you see? Cutting your hours in half means you have more time, so it's therefore automatically entirely your job!

Face it, the guy thinks running a household is 'woman's work' and is beneath him, you won't be finding a fair partnership here if you feel like he should help out and be a good team member.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
andrewdown•

Lot's of men and women feel like you do; lots of men and women feel as your guy feels. This is an issue of compatibility.

1
eridaOP•

Him and and I just had a phone conversation about it. I said exactly that - I don't think he's a bad person, he shouldn't have to feel guilty for the way he feels but that is just not how I work and that I didn't think we were compatible for marriage.. To be honest I don't really know why he gets so angry about it and why he's fighting so hard to make this work when I'm clearly not what he's looking for.

2
beejeans13•

Wow, what a great reaction! Good for you :) I know it's hard but we're (at least I'm) here if needed. I hope you feel some relief for just getting that out to him.

3
eridaOP•

Haha thanks for the support. I had to say it a few times (I've been saying it all along really) but I think he finally understands my point of view. It has upset him greatly and he said he'll call back to talk about it more later. I don't expect him to ever change his beliefs but we'll see what happens.

3
baultista•

What did his mother do for a living?

I'd be curious to know if he sees his mother as a model for a good stay-at-home mom, or a model for a poor career-driven mom that wasn't able to balance her job and her family.

1
eridaOP•

His mother was a scientist before she gave up her work to care for her husband and hasn't worked in the past 25 years. My bf sees her as the perfect mother and he wants that for his kids. Nothing wrong with that at all... just that there's zero compromise on the matter but he also wants our relationship to work.

1
Jessie_James•

Devils advocate:

Do you think working 40 hours a week and having your child be taken care of by a babysitter is desirable?

How much does that cost, is it worth it financially? Or is daycare going to cost $100/day?

Are you okay with someone else spending a majority of time raising your child and teaching him their values?

What happens if you miss those "firsts" like his first steps or first words because the babysitter did it?

At the end of the day when you both come home, and now you have to take care of kiddo, who cooks dinner and what is it? Mac & cheese from a box because husband won't or can't cook, delivery, or going out to a restaurant which is more expensive than eating at home? What is the quality of food you are eating and giving your kid now? Processed foods with HFCS in everything, or natural home-made foods?

Who takes care of the house if you're both tired? Or do you hire a housekeeper? Can you afford that? Or does it matter?

............

Two scenarios I know of:

Friend 1: Married, both parents work. Mondays dad stays home on his day off and takes care of the kid. Tues-Thurs the child is babysat at $100/day. Mom & dad come home and eat crap food (they've invited us to dinner) and are gaining weight, presumably due to poor food choices and not having the time or energy to make food from scratch. Kiddo is starting to stand up by himself, but he did it for the first time with the babysitter. House is a complete disaster area, they have zero incentive to clean. House is not baby proof which is scary. You can tell mom and dad are run-down and tired.

Friend 2: Married, dad works at home, mom is housewife and stays at home. Kiddo is taken care of by mom through the day, she does all the shopping, and she makes all meals. And DAMN, what meals she makes. Incredible stuff that just can't be bought. They shop mostly organic and you can tell. Both are in good shape, house is immaculate, and dad has time and energy to make upgrades like a new kitchen. House is baby proof and comfortable. Mom and dad had the pleasure of being around kiddo for many "firsts". They pay $0 in babysitting costs. Mom and dad have lots of energy and you can tell.

So is it dated? Maybe, but that is the point of dating - to find out if you can live with your partner and his demands. If not, then move on.

0
rebcart•

Here's a third scenario - use relatives, family friends and acquaintances for help. I was often looked after by either my grandmother, or by the grandmother/mother/aunt of some fellow preschooler or a family friend. There are also people who run creches for cheap, and there are workplaces that provide daycare too. I never had bad food, and the house was always clean. All of this while my mother was at university getting her second masters degree and then later full-time in the workforce, and my father was running his own business full-time. No regrets on any side.

7
eridaOP•

My grandmother looked after me after school for 2-3hrs before my mother got home from work. Not good enough for him.

1
eridaOP•

He used our families as this argument - his mother stayed home and he has a great relationship with her. Mine works and her and I don't have the best relationship. He said this in complete ignorance not knowing that the reason I don't have the best relationship is because I was a complete brat of a teenager and caused her much stress. Maybe I wouldn't have been a brat if she stayed home?

1
rebcart•

Of course he had a great relationship with his mother, it's likely she was his personal slave just like she was for his father. Was he ever asked to pull his own weight in the house and help his mother? Or was everything just done for him by her and he never had to feel responsible for helping to keep the house in working condition?

It's easy to have a good relationship with someone if that person is helping you coast through life. But I wonder how happy the mother was to be taking that on herself. It works for some people when they choose it deliberately, but if she didn't have a choice she'd be run ragged mentally as well as physically.

3
[deleted]•

Is this guy a chauvinist?

Chauvin was a fanatical French patriot. Did you mean to ask whether he's a sexist?

-4
eridaOP•

I meant chauvinist as in male chauvinist.. not crazy patriotic guy. Though I haven't specifically asked about his feelings toward the country, I assume I would have seen some expression of patriotism if he were a chauvinist in the original meaning. My apologies for any confusion.

1