Source
r/Vive•
maxstep

Vive Pro 2 does not support SteamVR Motion Smoothing

Speculation

Vive Pro 2 does not support SteamVR Motion Smoothing as discovered in reviews that came out.

Apparently it uses the same vive method as the vive cosmos headset, and everyone had the worst things to say about the vive native smoothing method cosmos-wise.

Any ideas, comments or insight please? I feel that this is very significant as even a 3090 will not drive higher res anywhere close to 120hz on this headset.

Posted May 27, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

3968
OXIOXIOXI•

That fucking sucks, I constantly use forced motion smoothing on my index. For a lot of experiences where you don’t move much or they’re competitive and you don’t care about pure immersion, I think it works really well.

13
CrazyPantsLance•

Motion smoothing screws up several games, I never use it

12
OXIOXIOXI•

Not to me, in Pavlov I play with 60 motion smoothed to 120. I don't care about artifacts, I hate stuttering of any kind or inconsistent frame rates.

4
Begohan•

You're thinking of reprojection, as opposed to motion smoothing. Two different things, working together.

Also wtf. Unless you have a 1060 why do you need to reproject Pavlov?

2†
Key_Problem9773•

I have a 3070 and can't get good frames in pavlov, it plays fine though with motion smoothing

6
OXIOXIOXI•

  1. No, don't correct me and then be wrong. I enable forced motion smoothing on 120hz.

  2. I guess you haven't played Pavlov, that's like saying "why does this alyx mod run worse, it's just Alyx?"

0†
kizzle69•

Huh, what kind of system are you using that makes the Index get stuttering at 120Hz in Pavlov? I first played Plavlov on my Index using an 5700 XT and it handled 120Hz really well. Grenades would make me drop into synthetic frames, though.

Once I jumped to my 2080 Ti, it did it perfectly. Now that I am on my 3090, I might even be able to push it to 144Hz. Haven't tried, as I don't play it much anymore. But, pavlov seems to be very light weight to me.

1
Key_Problem9773•

It's certain servers and game modes. Some modes are 144 locked and some are around 75 on a 3070

5
OXIOXIOXI•

Custom maps, 144% SS, and large player servers

3
Shindigira•

Apologies for being ignorant. How does one do that?

Is that where in SteamVR, you select 120Hz, then under motion smoothing select "Fixed" and set 120Hz predictive rate?

I think I might be of the same opinion where I hate stuttering/jitters/jumps and will tolerate the occasional motion artifact.

1
OXIOXIOXI•

Fixed or where it says motion smoothing you say always on. You do it per app usually in its video settings.

1
kizzle69•

same here.

4
tknice•

Same

1
DayDreamerJon•

It does, but with res this high you really need it.

1
AlphatierchenX•

Me too

1
Skuzz420•

It works great for sim racing where you spend most the time looking ahead into the distance so you don't really see any artifacting due to how gradual the smoothing/warping is compared to say looking left or right with shit flying past quickly.

1
djgrahamjG2•

The reason you don’t see many artifacts is it’s not doing much. Reprojection is designed to compensate for dropped frames and sensor latency. Racing should have little of either.

It’s typically best to race with no motion smoothing and with graphics settings and refresh set so you can maintain framerate. Motion smoothing is consuming performance while providing little benefit.

2
maxstepOPQuest2, HP Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2 PO+wireless+knuckles•

That's what I'm thinking, for msfs2020 it's the only way to run for example

Ets2/ATS still reprojects a lot in cities

This is the last candle on the poop-cake that are the latest news.

6
[deleted]•

[removed]

-2
Begohan•

Motion smoothing and reprojection are two different technologies. Reprojecting 45 to 90 will work fine, as normal. Motion smoothing is something I have always turned off, as it can cause weird wobbly artifacting with certain movements, as well as it robs 5-10% performance. In MSFS2020 for example I run reprojected from 30 to 90 (which I assume will still work just fine), with motion smoothing off because it causes the pillars in the plane to become all wobbly and gross.

11
Carmen_Electra•

Can you elaborate on this? What headset do you have, and what settings are you referring to? When you say "reprojected from 30 to 90, but not motion smoothed", I'm very confused.

1
Begohan•

Reprojection is when it halves your frame rate (or more) and then uses positional data of the headset to keep your head movements smooth and at full frame rate to avoid motion sickness due to insufficient performance to maintain the full frame rate.

Motion smoothing is a technology you can turn on to work alongside reprojection (it's on by default) that "guesses" what the next frame will be visually, and tries to recreate a "fake" full frame rate. Instead of it running at 45fps game wise, head movements at 90, it's running at 90 and 90 with a fake frame in between. It can be nice, other times it causes lots of weird graphical glitches.

2
MeatSafeMurderer•

Personally I think I'd rather have lower resolution than motion smoothing anyway. In my short time so far in VR I found it to be extremely distracting and turned it off. I'd rather have a single dropped frame here or there, which I barely feel, than constant visual artifacts.

8
maxstepOPQuest2, HP Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2 PO+wireless+knuckles•

I agree with you, but some experiences and most sims absolutely need reliable reprojection as a fall-back

7
MeatSafeMurderer•

My understanding is that motion smoothing and reprojection are separate, and reprojection can't be turned off. Reprojection uses the previous frame's geometry and moves it about to facilitate head movements, whereas motion smoothing uses the contents of the 2D output and makes a best guess as to where pixels should move based on stuff like motion vectors.

5
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

4
Leaky_Balloon_Knotsi7 7700k 5.0 GHz Titan X (Pascal) 2.0 GHz•

This is what I'm waiting for to decide if I'm canceling/keeping my preorder

2
Pyroth309•

How much worse is it than Valve's motion smoothing implementation? I pretty much rely on motion smoothing 100% of the time. I play on 350%SS on my Index a lot. No way a 5k headset won't be hitting it unless you lower the resolution way down...then what's the point of a 5k headset?

3
maxstepOPQuest2, HP Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2 PO+wireless+knuckles•

That's exactly my line of thought, triply so for a high refresh rate headset

3
Lemmeadem1•

350%?!

Why?

3
AdmiralSpeedy•

Stupidity, lunacy, idiocy. The list goes on.

7
Pyroth309•

Looks better. It sharpens it. Index still looks blurry to me at 200% but 300% and above looks good. Especially text. I also have a G2 that I run in motion smoothing 100% of the time. I have an overclocked 3090 as well. I normally run my G2 around 130% SS and it looks great. Was hoping for Vive Pro 2 to eliminate both so I could just have one HMD but if motion compensation is trash, I'm canceling.

0†
SCG-Fenris-Wolf•

Was this based on Virtual Oasis' review/impression? Was he sure to not use SteamVR(BETA) in which motion smoothing was not visible to select due to a UI bug? They are changing the UI in the Beta atm. Do not use SteamVR(Beta) and check again!!!

​

Motion smoothing is required for the games I play. If it really doesn't work, I'll be forced to return the VP2 as well. We need a clear answer from HTC regarding that. Can anyone ask them via Twitter?

3
llViP3rll•

Once again im fucking aghast at yet another HMD manufacturer who opts for another stupid fucking layer between the hardware and steamvr which, as usual, undermines the features and capabilities.

3
bumbasaur•

The motion smoothing in steamvr just caused me problems. If there's a demanding game you can turn on the async projection from vive console on and it does pretty much the same thing as motion smoothing without lagspikes or other performance weirdness.

2
Racxie•

Can someone explain what motion smoothing is? And on the basis I end up interested in giving it a go, how do you enable it? (I have an OG Vive).

1
djgrahamjG2•

Motion smoothing is a way of dealing with missing frames (usually because they took too long to render)

Rather than displaying the same frame again, which looks like a stutter, motion smoothing warps the last frame based on updated motion sensor data in an attempt to estimate what the new frame would have looked like.

While it can smooth out motion, it also costs performance and can display artifacts since the estimate can be wrong. I typically keep it forced off since the extra performance can mean the missing frame wouldn’t have been late in the first place, but there are use cases for it.

3
Racxie•

Ah thanks, I think I've heard of something like that but could be thinking of a different but similar technology. I can see missing a frame might be jarring, I can imagine the performance cost could be even worse on a low end system considering one of the things that reduces motion sickness is a high fps.

I'm guessing it mostly affects lower end cards though, because I don't think I've ever noticed it if it's turned on by default (I previously had 2x 1080Tis in SLI and now I have a 3090).

2
djgrahamjG2•

VR doesn’t support SLI but ya, with a 3090 you’re not going to be noticing a lot of dropped frames ;)

2
axman38Vive Pro•

It should be in SteamVR settings, under video or general (at least it is for me with my Vive pro) I assume it's like Nvidia G-Sync, where it tries to match the refresh rate of your headset to the frame rate that your graphics card is putting out. I may be wrong though

-2
Racxie•

Thanks, I'll have a look. I don't remember seeing it before but might just have missed it.

1
Carmen_Electra•

This may be a deal-breaker for me. I've done a pretty extensive writeup here about how wildly motion smoothing implementations can vary.

Basically, SteamVR motion smoothing is very performant. WMR's is much less so. I was hoping this headset would be able to replace my G2 and/or Index for MSFS where aggressive motion smoothing is absolutely required, but it sounds like that may not be the case. Bummer.

1
Key_Problem9773•

MRTV said it can use both lol and he actually has one, people going crazy in here over nothing.

4
Carmen_Electra•

MRTV said Vive Pro 2 can use SteamVR motion smoothing? Where did he say this?

3
Key_Problem9773•

https://twitter.com/mixedrealityTV/status/1398178492865564675?s=20

Here. Downvoted why?

2
Pyroth309•

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/nnc3cx/my_full_indepth_vive_pro_2_review_sebastian_mrtv/gzuyyeg/

2
psycho063new user|low karma account•

Is this something that can be patched in at a later date via Vive and/or StramVR update?

1
maxstepOPQuest2, HP Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2 PO+wireless+knuckles•

Honestly, I do not know. Potentially.

But I would not hold my breath for it.

1
OriginalGoldstandard•

Not a big deal. Bit if a gimmick at the mo anyway.

0
axman38Vive Pro•

My vive pro first gen claims to have motion smoothing but I was having some weird lag issues when I had it turned on, sometimes it'll work and sometimes it won't work, I assume it's because my graphics card doesn't support 120 Hertz high frame rates (1060 6gb)

0
stein_row•

Given the link below saying it CAN support motion smoothing of the Vive or SteamVR variety, what is your source?

You'd think a Vive employee would weigh in on this, as there are tons of forums full of people doing a hard pass on the VP2 because of this Reddit post and a crap-tier, semi-illiterate, 'rushed to post first' YouTube review.

I'm about to cancel my pre-order if it can't be determined...plus what I am learning about HTC/Vive as I research my first Vive purchase... maybe I will stay safe and warm with my Index.

https://mobile.twitter.com/mixedrealityTV/status/1398178492865564675?s=20

-1
Pyroth309•

MRTV came out and said that another person from HTC contacted him said and that it wasn't exactly true and was a bit more complicated...IE doesn't sound good. He's supposed to test it when he gets back to his studio.

3
maxstepOPQuest2, HP Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2 PO+wireless+knuckles•

From the youtube video of a review, maybe mixed reality? There were both steamvr and viveport options shown.

Do not form your opinion based on my reddit posts, do research please.

I do not in any form, shape, or form, guarantee authenticity or veracity of the statement.

If I may bring your attention please, I tagged the post 'speculation' and asked a series of questions in the body of the post.

I would prefer MRTV to provide proof to back up his statement.

Once again, my post is 'speculation' based on a video, is tagged as such and delineates thus, and do not form any opinion based on my posts or comments please.

1
Pyroth309•

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/nnc3cx/my_full_indepth_vive_pro_2_review_sebastian_mrtv/gzuyyeg/

0
maxstepOPQuest2, HP Reverb G2, Vive Pro 2 PO+wireless+knuckles•

Indeed, no proof, HTC support doesn't know anything, and the 'bit more complicated' means I was right. Unfortunately. Speculatively.

1