Source
r/enlistedgame•
Kallelinski

Last American Tank M4A3E2 vs Last German Tank Pz. IV H in Normandy is not balanced at all.

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https://i.imgur.com/cwNehPZ.png

Just comparing the numbers shows how incredibly unbalanced those two tanks are. It's not possible to penetrate the M4A3E2 with the Pz.IV H, unless you shoot him in the back, but how should you do that, if the M4A3E2 can just sit in the back and you have no possible way to go around, because it's a no-go area for you? Well, you can't.

I wouldn't complain about it, if is was the same case for the M4A3E2 as well, but he can just shoot you in the face with no problem at all, while you have to do some sneaky peaky shit to do even damage to him.

So far the best way to deal with a M4A3E2 as a tank player has been to exit your own tank and throw dynamite at him, because that's more effective than your own actual tank, or switch to a bomber.

I don't like nerfs in any game, but at least make it even for both, so it's not the gun or armour, but the actual skill that decides who dies and lives. If i can't even penetrate him, but his tank shells just cuts me in thousand pieces, there's something wrong.

Posted Jun 16, 2021, 7:47 PM UTC

1964
Ill_Examination3690•

I really don't think the Jumbo should be available on Normandy.

That being said, I kill them all the time with my Pz. IV H. And yes, it does help to be fully upgraded because it makes you more mobile and increases gun accuracy.

If I face one head on, I shoot through the bow MG mount, killing at least one crew member and usually damaging automotive components. Multiple shots through that weak spot will immobilize the vehicle, or even detonate the ammo.

A typical engagement for me against the jumbo will be a shot to the MG, followed by 1-2 shots to the same track to break it, then booking it as fast as I can to shoot into it's side armor for the kill.

I try to start the engagement at maximum possible distance, since the fully upgraded 75 on the panzer is superior to the short barrelled 75 on the Sherman. Now that he's stuck, I can either maneuver on him for the flank shot, or machine gun his crew when he pops out to repair the vehicle.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this, since defeating a Jumbo is always satisfying, yet that tank still shouldn't be on that battlefield.

6
Kamina_Aniki-sama•

It shouldn't be available on normandy AT ALL. Even if you take balance out of the equation. The jumbo started tests in Detroit on June 8th.

We should ALL know what day d-day is, anyone that doesn't should find a game that suits their interests more XD.

The US first army was issued the first M4A3E2's on October 18th 1944. Well after any fighting in normandy had stopped.

It doesn't belong historically and it doesn't belong balance wise. Now, there actualy was Tiger 1 AND Tiger 2 there at the time. If the devs realy must give USA the jumbo, at least let Germany have the tiger 1. It's a better gun even yet sure, but the jumbo still has more armor then the tiger 1. Enough that a tiger can't pen it frontaly without hitting the MG port same as pz 4. And likewise the jumbo must find weakspots on the tiger. But if you consider the jumbo with 76mm, they are very comparable. With the advantage still going to the jumbo

6
XxCptNICK94xX•

Wtf its turret traverse is faster....why?

6
Ricky_RZshorturl.at/apzBI•

Is balance comrade \s

If I had to guess, it is to emphasize the defensive role of german tanks, with worse maneuverability and worse armor, but with better long-range firepower

-1
HG2321PC•

Some people seem to think that because other parts of the game are biased in favour of one team, other parts should be biased in favour of the other. How about no bias at all? Wouldn't that be better for game balance? Yes, the Germans have the advantage early-game in Normandy with the Puma and the short-barreled Panzer IV versus the Stuart and Scott, but the Jumbo just absolutely blows everything else away.

The Jumbo wasn't even at Normandy, honestly we gotta be asking if it should even be in the game at all, at least on the Normandy campaign.

3
kajwski•

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it supposed that Allies have better planes and Axis better tanks? if so why give Allies the Jumbo? If they already have better planes? Give a better plane to Axis then

1
HG2321PC•

Ideally, both sides would have stuff that's more or less on the same plane of existence as the other. So of course there's going to be one tank or plane that's slightly better or worse than the other, but there shouldn't be one that just blows the competition out of the water IMO, like the Jumbo currently does.

1
kajwski•

Some people say that devs will add the Jagpanther to Normandy to balance this, which I don't know if is true.

1
HG2321PC•

Hmmmm, I'm not sure about that. What I don't want to happen is that each update, between the US and Germany (or two other countries in another context), each country gets something which blows the other countries' offerings totally out of the water, and then we never actually get to balance the game properly. Unfortunately, this seems to happen in War Thunder now

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
LiquidProphet•

Wehraboo whining thread activate!

1
GMEbankrupt•

I get one shot all the time in the M4 and it’s upgraded to all but the last level. Get a faster tank and flank the M4. It’s tough in front but ridiculously slow

0
poinz•

That doesn't work for tanks who just sit behind enemy lines, where I have no acces.

7
ExquisiteRestroom2Enlisted•

Do the upgrades increase the armor value or something?

1
GMEbankrupt•

Various stats, but the only one that is noticeable to me is speed. It’s still fairly easy to take it out with explosives or the right shot. Probably not worth burning those silver cards on tbh.

1
ExquisiteRestroom2Enlisted•

Yeah I wish you could get tank parts from bronze orders. Atleast as a bonus like axes and pistols

3
roby9002Can't aim with a bolt action rifle •

The americans dominate the late game and the germans the early game, so if you want the devs to nerf the Jumbo they should also nerf the Puma.

0†
Ricky_RZshorturl.at/apzBI•

Not really.

The Puma and stuart is a much bigger toss up.

The stuart is a lot more nimble, also it is able to turn on the spot.

The Puma's glacial turret rotation speed and inability to turn it's hull on the spot makes it a lot more awkward in close range combat.

The stuart and puma are equally effective when played to their strengths.

The P4H doesn't have any real strengths you can exploit. The only advantages you can press (APHE rounds) require either a very well placed MG port shot (sometimes impossible to make), or just completely outplaying the jumbo driver.

5
zayne40Suffering in Berlin•

Not really. This is the only direct match up I see that the American win with late game equipment. You could make a case for Thompson versus the Berretta, but its pretty even if you ask me. The FG-42, the FG-42 II, and the MG-42 are all just better than what the Americans get. The M2 carbine is just a fancy smg and the FG-42 runs circles around it at range and can still win up close since it can 1 shot. The FG-42 II compared to sniper Garand is no contest. And the BAR does not compete with the MG-42 in anyway. I dont know about planes since I don't touch them, but all in all, the Germans just have better late game equipment by far

2
still_no_drink•

Puma get one shot all the time lol. M8 already one shot it, same with Jumbo and Sherman and Chaffee

You just need to hit HE shell to the side a bit, or from their side. it will 1 shot all the time

2
roby9002Can't aim with a bolt action rifle •

The Puma is overall better than the Stuart

1
INS4N3S0CK5•

I wont give a shit about this until my first unlock tank cant go up againt enemy last unlock tanks.

God i hate this game lmao

-1
Craponasidewalk•

Now imagine being on the US side and having literally every other tier reward except the PIAT and Jumbo being considerably worse than the German unlock. Every single level. Now come back and cry about the Jumbo that can die instantly to anyone over level 12 with a functioning space bar on their keyboard

-1
thatdudewithknees•

Ahh, yes. Anecdotal evidence. Let's put it to the test.

lvl2: Puma/Stuart. Stuart has better armor, better machinegun, better turret traverse. Puma has a better cannon and top speed. Ahh yes, the claim that Puma is just 'better', thwarted again. Now, armor on light tank usually don't matter, but the 8mm armor on the Puma actually matters enough that it can be easily killed by M2HB and HE shells.

lvl3: MAS36 vs Enfield: Enfield wins by a country mile. MAS36 is even worse than default Kar98

lvl4: P-38G2 vs Bf 110: One is a fighter, one is an attacker. I'll give it to the 110 here.

lvl5: M1 Carbine vs FNAB: One is a semi auto, one is a smg, neither are very good, considering FNAB is just a statistically worse grease gun. Nobody uses them, so no points here.

lvl6: Flamethrowers: More or less the same

lvl7: Garand VS G43. This has been discussed to death and is a divisive issue. Garand has better recoil, muzzle velocity and total ammo. G43 has better magazine size. Sights are an issue of contention, but it's pretty subjective. I've heard people complain about sights on both guns, personally I'm fine with them.

lvl8: PIAT vs Sturmpistole: PIAT wins

lvl9: MP40 vs M3A1: MP40 has about 85 higher RPM and less H recoil. M3A1 has less V recoil and a lot more damage. Personally I like the M3A1 more. The damage makes it viable at long range while the MP40 lacks both the damage for long range and rof for close range

lvl10: Scott vs Panzer 3N. Both are good. Scott has better HE rounds and rotation speed, I believe the 3N has better armor but both are still light tanks. Hard to call them better than the other. As usual for American tanks the scott has better turret rotation and machineguns. I'm going to have to give it to the scott just because of its greater anti infantry capability alone.

lvl11: Bren vs Breda. Breda is the worst MG in the game. Bren wins easily.

lvl12: P51C-10 vs 109G6. The G6 wins cus 250kg bomb

lvl13: Mortars are basically the same

lvl14: Springfield M1903A4 vs Sniper Gewehr. Bolt action with more damage vs Semi Auto sniper. Some people have preferences to them, but I prefer the semi so imma give it to the Gewehr.

lvl15: Sherman vs PZiv J. Not even a contest. The pz4j is unplayably bad as anyone who has ever used it will tell you, and the Sherman is actually a good tank being well rounded, good turret rotation and MG as usual and better HE shells.

lvl16: Shotgun vs Beretta M1918. Beretta wins cus shotguns are bad

lvl17: Grenade Launchers. Bolt action vs Carbine. Frankly I don't see the point of them so I'm just going to reserve judgment on this one, since nobody would use them over the Garand/Gewehr

lvl18: A-20 vs JU188. Players from both sides have complained that the other is OP. I will be fair and not give points to either side here. JU has more bomb load while A-20 has the ability to actually defend itself, and does it fairly well for a bomber.

lvl19: BAR vs MG34: MG34 wins

lvl20: Jumbo vs 4H. Jumbo wins

lvl21: Sniper Garand vs Sniper FG: Sniper FG wins

lvl22: Sten vs MP35/I Frankly neither of these are better than earlier unlock SMGs, so I'll not judge them. I suppose the Sten is usable since it fires faster than earlier guns, but to me the fire rate doesn't compensate for the much less damage.

lvl23: M2 vs FG42: FG wins

lvl24: P38J vs 109 G10: P38 wins, as the G10 has no ground attack weapons at all, and the extra 20mm cannons it is compensated with are known to not be very good at killing aircraft anyways.

lvl25: BAR vs MG42: MG42 wins, although I'd point out that MG42 is worse than MG34 apart from the sights.

lvl26: Lanchester vs ZK383: Their performance are so close together, it isn't really possible to give a winner here. 550-600 vs 600-660 ROF, 32 rounds mag vs 30 rounds mag, 23/9 vs 22/11 recoil.

lvl27: P47D vs FW190. P47 is the best plane in the game.

lvl28: Flamethrowers again. No winners here.

lvl29: Thompson vs Beretta M38: M38 isn't a bad gun, but Thompson still wins by a mile.

Tally:

10 wins for US 8 wins for Axis 11 draws/undecided

Now, don't let this tally mislead you. It doesn't mean that one side has better stuff than the other, these are just unlock levels. 1 Better unlock at a certain level may provide a massive boost ie. FG42,Jumbo, but while other unlocks may be better, they might not matter too much ie. Beretta m1918 being better than the shotgun, Enfield being better than the MAS36. But I think on the per level basis it's enough to disprove OP's claim that US has worse unlocks on every level except 2.

5
zodII4K•

Aye.. interesting that nobody brings up this topic. Allies sucks in terms of unlocks, except 2-3 rewards. But all I can see is Axis complaints.

-2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-3
still_no_drink•

Thats the Panzer IV H the other way around, Jumbo can one shot Panzer IV H no issues in the Side with HE, cuz of 30mm armor, Jumo can eat 2-3 shots

Did you even see OP's stats. Jumbo has 76 armor side, only bottom can be hit but it wont kill the tank in 1 hit. Panzer IV H only has 30mm and 10mm bottom

Jumbo is better than Panzer IV H in every way

1
LiquidProphet•

The PZIV has a spall liner idiot.

-1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-2
__Yakovlev__Being low level is not an excuse for not flanking•

If only people realised that the jumbo is pretty much end of the line for the Americunts, while the germans still have a lot more possible tanks to come.

-4
still_no_drink•

The Devs said they will give the Panther to the Germans in Normandy, US will also get something in return. Most likely Hellcat or something. Still, the fact that German Tanks has to Flank the the Jumbo to kill it or through the MG Port is wrong. Jumbo can pen any German Tanks from the front without any issues. its not a Tiger

4
nonagondwanalandH&G Veteran•

Jumbo can't pen Panther any better than a base model Sherman. Any American tank with a 75mm cannon (Lee, Sherman, Jumbo) can kill a Panzer IV from the front if it's not angled. And technically we shouldn't get 76mm Shermans in Normandy, it would be nice if we did though. Maybe a Firefly?

1
YuriPup•

Most technically, no. They were ready, but no commanders wanted the complication of logistics and training bringing in a new Sherman would do.

American troops had not yet faced the Panther. Even after that, rather like Enlisted, tanks spent more time taking out infantry and strong points than fighting other tanks. WoT and WarThunder have given us very biased views.

The HE round on the 75 was better than the 76s, and that lead to a lot of reluctance for upgrading.

The Chieftain covers it well, here.

2
LiquidProphet•

You try to do it then, b/c they can't kill a PZIV from the front. On paper, they should, but not in this game.

2
Huller_BRTD•

Imo Pz IV J should be replaced by Pz IV H, and the Pz IV H replaced with a Tiger I if it is going to go up against the Jumbo at the same campaign level.

1
nonagondwanalandH&G Veteran•

[Laughs in Pershing]

2
YuriPup•

If they have the Jumbo, they can have the Easy 8 (wrong name I know), the 76 Sherman.

2
[deleted]•

[removed]

-6
roby9002Can't aim with a bolt action rifle •

Just a wehraboo.

-3
nonagondwanalandH&G Veteran•

Probably not even a wehraboo, his name is Yakolev. He's probably just taking the piss out of fragile redditors.

3
__Yakovlev__Being low level is not an excuse for not flanking•

yup, fragile redditors like him specifically. This sub especially has turned to shit. Like how am I a wehraboo for saying the germans have a lot better tanks still coming? while the jumbo is pretty much the best the allies are gonna get. It's literally a fact, both historically and when digging through the game files to check what tanks are already in the game.

It's starting to look more and more like like the cod fanbase has arrived.

1
LiquidProphet•

How bout you learn how to play you fucking moron.

The Jumbo can be 1 shot under the side armor with HE. The PZIV H, however, has a spall liner, so even if you try to do the same thing with a Jumbo it will take 2 shots. Neither tank can pen the other from the front with AP.

The panzer IVs have much higher penetrating AP, however. You don't see the imbalance there b/c gun pen is not listed.

You need to watch a vid on how to kill tanks, b/c posts like this only serve to show how little you know about the game.

-8
still_no_drink•

I one shot Panzer IV all the time with the Jumbo with HE on Side, Jumbo can only be penetrated through the front via the MG Port. I own a Jumbo myself Maxed

Jumbo cannot be killed in side on 1 shot, its possible but very very rare. Jumbo has 76mm side, panzer IV H has 30mm. Both of these tanks should not be on the same Tier.

in Warthunder Jumbo is in a separate higher tier than the Panzer IV H

Stop being a biased piece of shit thanks

4
LiquidProphet•

Wrong. You don't know where to aim. That's no one's fault but your own. Again, watch a video on it and educate yourself. Quadro has one.

'It can't be one shot, but it can be one shot, but it's rare.' Are you stupid or something?

-4
still_no_drink•

Practice range does not work on Real Practice, show me a single video where this is done in Live Game.

In Practice Range you can use Sturmpistol to kill a Jumbo, You can't do that in a Live Game. Its near possible

I've only been rarely killed in a Jumbo in 1 shot, it always takes multiple shots even on the Side. Most of the time it only sets me on Fire, not killing me instantly like you would to the Panzer IV H

Quadro only plays US, he doesn't know Shit

5
nonagondwanalandH&G Veteran•

Why can't you just accept that Jumbo Shermans and Panzer IVs don't belong on the same tier? Yes, you CAN kill it from the side. Big fucking deal, the Puma can kill it from the side too. Does that mean Jumbo should be tier 1?

3
LiquidProphet•

Why can't you just accept that the Jumbo and Panzer IVs do belong on the same tier? The PzIV is just as invulnerable to American weapons frontally as the Jumbo is to German weapons. Both can be killed from the side.

Starting to get it yet, dumbass?

0
still_no_drink•

Something is fucked up in your head if you think its balanced when German Tanks has to Flank and Hit the MG Port while Germans Tanks has to Flank while Jumbo can just pen them from the Front

Again look at both Tanks stats, they are not balanced for each other. Jumbo irl is also superior than the Panzer IV H, and in Warthunder, they do not get put into the same Tier. Jumbo has a Higher Tier in Warthunder

https://wiki.warthunder.com/M4A3E2_(76)_W

Not only this, US also has the superior Anti Tank Weapon with PIAT being much better than the German counterpart

2
LiquidProphet•

The Jumbo can't pen the PZIV from the front. The fact that you think it can means you've never tried to do it. Something is fucked in your head if you assume it can without ever trying it.

The version of the Jumbo in Enlisted atm has the 75mm m3 gun, dipshit.

1
Holsondel•

Lol. You're a fuckin' moron.

1
LiquidProphet•

I thought you quit b/c you were too stupid for the game. Learn how to kill anything yet, you tweenie shittard?

1