r/poker•
ch0rtle

Did I misplay this hand?

Hand Analysis

100NL online

Stacks:
Hero: 165.00
Villain: 404.96

UTG Opens to 3. CO and BUT call. Hero 3bet AsAh to 14. Only BUT calls

Flop: (Pot = 35)
9d Qh 4c
Hero cbets 20. Villain calls.

Turn: (Pot = 75)
9d Qh 4c Jd
Hero checks to villain who bets half pot, 42.50. Hero rips for 131. Villain snap calls.

River:
9d Qh 4c Jd Ad
Villain turns over KTo

Is this a better spot to flat on the turn? Villain could have QQ and JJ or QJ. But Villain could also have some KQdd AdX QT JT type hands. Or am I just overthinking this and it's just a cooler? Thoughts on this spot?

Posted Jun 24, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC · edited

917
RotundEnforcer•

Preflop, this 3bet is too small. Pot is 16.5 and you're OOP, so perhaps 18 is better. I see a few commenters saying you shouldn't fear the KT because it's not in the BU 3bet call range, but they aren't factoring in the great price you gave button. He had to call 11 to win 35, and almost any hand he called UTG open and one call with will have the 31.4% equity needed to make this call. Your small 3bet opened up the punish. He may have folded to a properly sized 3bet.

Flop was perfect. Turn check was correct, since the J interacts with BU better than our range, and gives him the nut advantage.

Hate the jam. You say villain could have KQ, AdX, QT and JT, which is true, but then you definitely don't want to jam. Those hands are all drawing thin and will likely fold to a jam. The only thing calling jams are hands that beat you. This is a straightforward overplay of AA.

Having said all of that, it was a cooler. Standard play is call turn, then call his river jam when you make top set. Ace doesn't change much since the flush was one of the three backdoors and you were losing to KT before the river. You were losing your money anyway, but the way you lost it was not necessary.

20
ch0rtleOP•

I think this response sums up the way the hand should've been played, the best. I agree with the sizing pre and the fact that jamming turn isn't ideal if I want a call from worse. Thanks for the response.

6
WeenisWrinkle•

Why are you checking this turn? KT is not part of a typical 3B button call range, so you really need to lead this out for value IMHO. After villain leads out, why are you check-raising? You're almost never getting called by worse hands after a check-raise on the turn here. These aren't rhetorical questions, BTW, it helps to hear your reasoning behind those decisions.

Is this a better spot to flat on the turn?

Yes, but even better to lead out. If you flat, you at least keep hands you beat in the pot for potential value on the river.

Villain could have QQ and JJ or QJ.

Yes, but these hands are a lot less likely than AQ or KQ.

It's somewhat of a cooler, but you didn't particularly play the last two streets well either.

6
Bjorn2bwilde24•

"Why are you checking this turn? KT is not part of a typical 3B button call range, so you really need to lead this out for value IMHO."

I think your giving V too much credit. Why would V just flat $3 preflop with AQ or KQ? QQ and JJ doesn't make sense either to flat $3 either to OP's point. What hands is V calling $3, calling a 3! and call a Q94r board? The story that V is telling doesn't make sense with those hands. QJ, 99, 44 make more sense than AQ or KQ.

4
ch0rtleOP•

Good point, considering he flatted the initial open. Makes me think KT is more in his c/c range pre.

1
WeenisWrinkle•

I feel like AQ/KQ flat is pretty typical for a button. Way more typical than calling a 3bet with KT.

1
sc24evr•

Would you 4b on button w/ AQ KQ?

1
Bjorn2bwilde24•

With how small the 3! was I would. A much larger 3!, I wouldn't 4! It also depends on how tight OP's 3! range is.

1
ch0rtleOP•

Thanks for the response.
I see the merit in leading turn. I guess my thinking was that he could continue to bet his AQ or QT type hands but I guess he would likely call a bet with those hands too.

You make a good point about what worse hands are calling a check raise on the turn there.

I guess if I had bet the turn, and then faced a raise, it would've been easier to get away from it.

2
rumpstomper•

Seems fine to me, I'd size down a bit on the flop but if you do want to choose a big sizing aces is the best hand to do it with since you unblock the continue range.

Turn check is good because the jack and overall board texture interacts more with the button's range than ours, and I like jam rather than call because there are a ton of hands we're ahead of that we benefit from denying equity from. Aces no diamond is especially sweet because we unblock all the nut flush draws that could be semibluffing.

If this player has KTo here, they'll have QTo, JTo, T9o and may bet those as a semibluff. I think this is well played but just a cooler.

4
ch0rtleOP•

Thanks for the response. I also figured that if I called, I would have 2/3 left on the river anyway so I figured a jam would be better.

2
boomieloomie•

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’m definitely x/c turn. The Jd just hits smashes his range so hard here, you’re almost never called with worse.

I get it you have AA and you want to get the money in, but don’t get married to the idea of having a premium preflop.

2
Connman8db•

Against passive players, you just want to bet the turn again knowing that they won't fold AQ/KQ/QT but likely won't raise you either. Against balanced players you want to mix in some checks on the turn for pot control since it brings in a lot of hands that beat you (KT/QJ/JJ/J9/T8) and you probably won't get 3 streets from worse. Against an extremely aggressive player I love checking the turn and piling after they bet.

So if this was an aggressive opponent, well played.

1
thenightking23•

As others have said, raise to a larger size pre. Pot is 16 so I’d go to around 20. This will allow you to have more bluffs which you’ll have a lot of from the SB presumably.

I see no reason to check turn. Villain can only have 4 combos of KTs that have made the nut straight, so it’s much more likely he has a random Q or a 9 which you’ll want to get value from. Simply put it is unlikely you are beat here.

As played I see no reason to jam turn. Why not just call? You’re mainly getting action from hands that have you beat (e.g., KTs, QJs, J9s, etc)

To sum up it seems like you overplayed your hand. Perhaps if you had made it $20 preflop, you could have avoided this gross spot. But at the same time don’t feel too bad b/c villain is clearly a donkey who just got lucky here hitting his gutter

1
Jeffydabear•

You need to raise bigger pre to like 18 OTF you can check or bet but I would go 1/3 here OTT Is a good check you can make an argument for check jamming but I would x/c and evaluate river… not sure why we want to help worse players get better though /s

0
Women101•

All these comments are a joke. UNLESS your opponent is super agro or you are going to fold the turn then just calling on the turn is IDIOTIC. If you call the turn it allows villain to realize all his equity with draws and shut down with any draw. To say villain will jam as a bluff on the river at a high frequency makes no sense. Also villain will check a lot of hands we beat such as KQ A Q, J 10, Q 10. Also if villain ever does have a pure bluff in this spot (which is VERY unlikely with the board texture) then a scare card comes like 8, K, Q, then it allows villain to bluff us off. A lot of "drawing" hands will call the turn jam regardless. So essentially calling on the turn is completely trash. Its either a check fold, or check jam. All these comments about how "villain can't call the turn with worse" is complete bullshit. If they TRULY believe we are beat on the turn then its just a fold.

0
thegreattrevdini•

he had kings?

-1