Source
r/DotA2•
rt79

Position 4 in ranked, is it flexible or not? Griefing?

Discussion

Position 4, support. Is it a flex pick that can mean semi core, roamer, greedy utility items?

Something like lina or gleipnir hoodwink.

Backstory, I really win a lot when I go greedier pos 4 in legends bracket, there is so much dead money that none in the team will ever get...I never went anything really crazy like radiance or deso, just gleipnir for more CC or travels when the enemy split pushes a lot and the dead farm in lanes is not being used. Travels espcially makes some players really upset, like its a divine rapier or something.

Anyhow I got one game of low priority after a month of doing this sometimes, I never destroyed items / followed players or slacked on detection/wards, and always gave farm priority to cores.

I didn't expect to get punished for playing my way that had what I feelt was a positive impact in my games.

So what's your opinion, against the rules or no?

TBH I find the idea of regulating what items and how much farm u can take stupid, if someone is doing poorly with their decisions they will just lose MMR.

Posted Jul 16, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

126
throwaway0802050904•

yeah i mean shouldnt get low prio probably, but gleipnir? travels? what minute are you getting these items.... whats your impact in the game before then and how could it be different. spending 2600 support gold on a maelstrom? 2k on an item that makes no difference in fights? you realize like when you build travels, gleipnir youre taking core farm alongside the fact that youre building items to take even more core farm... why not just play core instead of griefing like this

7
rt79OP:mirana:•

Thats the point there is so much farm on the map that the cores dont touch in legend bracket.
Anyhow I did the same now 10 games in a row but went just euls lens blink and no one complains and I get almost the same networth as my cores, MVP in 6/10 games.
Its not as strong but it gets less hate.

0†
throwaway0802050904•

yeah so u think winning those games has nothing to do w those item choices?

4
throwaway0802050904•

yeah so u think winning those games has nothing to do w those item choices?

3
rt79OP:mirana:•

Not as much as the networth advantage, there is a major impact from a glepnir midgame and stuff like that. Boots of travels pays for itself in SOME games when the enemy pushes all lanes if no core is willing to push back.

To be specific, if the enemy team is weak against stuns and disables its great, a hero like hoodwink sets up so much with gleipnir its amazingly useful.

-1
throwaway0802050904•

this some 2k 2head brain shit right here. glepnir is not a power spike in literally like any game lol... yes, in a game where your cores are not farming lanes and the lanes are out of control maybe or like a brood game. but idk what to tell someone whos just trying to justify their shitty low skill grief behavior. 2450 2600 gold into the toilet minimum and youre yapping at me like a dog about how this is in some world higher impact than a blink/force/glimmer (all cheaper).

you sound like a fucking moron saying you need gleipnir to set up hoodwink stuns... so awful.

2
[deleted]•

But imagine if you, took the farm that you can, and instead of having travels + gleipnir you could have euls, arcane boots, and be progressing towards a defensive item for your team like force staff or lotus orb

2
rt79OP:mirana:•

Yea thats the argument i get the most, we need 2 glimmers 2 force staffs and euls both from pos 5 and 4. I dont think its very effective to go items when its not whats needed though. Going gleipnir or travels is situational and in those games very high impact is what i meant.

1
[deleted]•

A position 4 should not need almost 7k worth of items to impact the game. By the time you've gotten your gleipner pos 1 are definitely most of the way towards a bkb. Euls is essentially the same cost of travels.

Consider the utility euls provides compared to travels. Mana Regen, invulnerability, guaranteed stun.

These are much more important to your team than a 30 min gleipnir

1
AllyEmmie:ancientapparition:•

Apparently after 3,000 hours of this horrible cesspool of a game, the term Position 4 has completely fucking changed

It used to mean SOFT SUPPORT.

You would buy some disable items, and preferably play someone with either a shield like Abaddon or a stun like Pudge or Earth Shaker.

Now it sounds like you're playing DPS or Junglers as Position 4

What does Position 4 mean these days???

What in the god damn fuck is happening to this game

i cannot keep up with this shit anymore :(

4
rt79OP:mirana:•

Lina and hoodwink are both stunners and glepnir is more root. Thats mainly what I go, a lot of disable.

By the way what position is jungle? It use to be 4...

0†
AllyEmmie:ancientapparition:•

Gleip is a root? I thought it was a spin off of mjollnir; it seemed like DPS buy o.0

1
AllyEmmie:ancientapparition:•

Yaaaaay back in ye olden days, Jungler was pos. 2 they were a carry in everything but name :/ i guess it's not like that anymore?? are junglers supports now??

-5
rt79OP:mirana:•

The player missing in lanes were the support from offlane, that means its the missing spot pos 4 jungler.
The point was that jungler didnt take farm from the other cores, well thats how some played it, im sure some played like they were the only player in the game.
Anyhow when ranked roles first came the junglers went 4.

1
vanFail:techies: >•

Jungle pos 2?

1
AllyEmmie:ancientapparition:•

Many moons ago (Like, 7 years when CK was a viable jungler and hadn’t been graphically remodeled and looked like a walking trash can)

1
Loud-Method4243•

Pos 4 is actually core/support fluid. It all depends on how the game is progressing. The "limiting factor" for which you are a core or not is if you are snowballing (from kills, stacks etc) and the other players movement/spikes/scaling in the game. It is a rather tricky fine line to balance as there are more factors to consider than, usually, other positions. You can't "play" the same game as 4 in that sense of being "semi" core / support strictly only regarding your own pick, you have to consider all other hero play pattern and skill bracket since the most limiting factor is not you, it's what the game allows you to have without being a detriment to your team.

3
rt79OP:mirana:•

Well Like i said I have amazing winrate its not the issue of sense, I dont go semi every game its just some games are really worth doing it in.
Anyhow its mindblowing how people dictate how you should play and what items u should get otherwise its considered griefing just as much as destroying your items i guess...

0
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

2
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

1
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

1
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

1
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

1
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

1
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

1
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

1
pewsquare•

The difference between beeing greedy 4 and griefy 4 is where when and what you farm. If you try to push out dangerous lanes so you can rotate/place wards/make killshappen, then its just a greedy 4. If you see your carry farm the jungle next to a lane that is about to push and you go and nuke it down, then its griefing.

Same thing, if you are focusing on farming up your item when the rest of the team is figting or struggling you are not doing your job.

The idea of regulating items/farm is not stupid at all. Why would i want my support to build a refresher if i know its too expensive and they can do a better job with little gold investment compared to my core which needs a lot more gold to start doing well. Gold is not equal on all heroes, that is the important thing.

Is a earthshaker with blink, deadalus, aghs and heart an absolute beast? Yea ofc. But can he also completely shit on the enemy with just a blink and brown boots? Ofc. Meanwhile how strong is a medusa with 3k networth? She is a joke, a non existance. Meanwhile get her 6 slotted and you literally will not be able to kill her even if you throw 10 people at her.

Now don't get me wrong, i might not agree with all the ideas about how dota is played and how people get stuck in certain meta mindsets. But the 1-5 position designation is a really fair way of portraying farm priority. Basically if you want to farm, at least have the balls to take responcibility for picking a core role. It seems to me you are more or less just someone who does not want to be responcible for fucking up in an important role while still wanting to farm up and play pretend core.

1
ElloYellowHello:earthspirit:•

I think pos4 is one of the most flexible and difficult positions in the game. I feel your job should be to fill in the gaps your team has.

You can go greedier items when your other three cores are having a good game. But if they are struggling, then you have to be able to support them.

You have to analyze the matchup and see what items can benefit your team in a fight. Most pos 4 have a wide variety of items they can build.

Does your team need to survive? Force staff, glimmer, mek, euls

Does your team have good magic burst? veil, eblade (specially if 4 sec disarm on an enemy can make a difference - think when against legion, ta and sven for eg), items that do physical damage

If your other 3 cores can do good amount of physical right click damage, you don't need more of that. Build a solar crest instead.

Does you team lack seige? Meme hammer

Does you team lack mobility? (when you have legion/axe, medusa, luna etc - people who want to farm jungles and not show in lanes) - go BOTS

Once you have identified 1/2 of these utility/support items that can really buff up your team in fights, THEN go and see what can amplify your damage/how can you make your game better.

1
TheDeadlyEdgelord•

IF, If... If you are winning in your bracket with your own ways you should continue to abuse that until you no longer can for now you reached your "actual" skill bracket. Each rank has its own way of thinking, playstyle, favored heroes, roles and community. You found the way to breach the wall in front of you from which you should move onwards until you reach your next "wall". Just know how to adapt to the next wall quickly else you are "griefing" basically ;).

You WILL get sent to low prio occasionally, you cant escape this. Its the price. Rules? What rules? I dont see on anywhere that orders me not to build aghs on lina as p4 or whatnot. Its not the icefrog himself punishing you, its the people using the system. Never listen to the people, they didnt code this shit, its not "their" game. Give a hammer to someone and s/he immediately starts to see everyone as nails... We are guests.

MMR is given to the deserved OR taken from the undeserved. If you are consistently winning, key word is consistent here, then you must be doing something to deserve that +30.

1
Bubbly-Astronaut-123•

I get flamed for my pos4 naga all the time. Especially after I build a heart, bots then butterfly into skadi.

1
rt79OP:mirana:•

Thats a lot more greedy than i go, my only greedy items are travels and atos into gleipnir hehe

1
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

0
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

0
MrSexyPizza3:slardar:•

If you're winning then it's viable. That's all there is to it. There's no single blue print for how to play Dota and the game is different in each bracket. And Pos 4 is the flex pick. You should build items that your team lacks which is a sacrifice on its own.

0