PSA: Do not use Power Infusion on Venthyr boomkins during bloodlust
[removed]
Posted Jul 16, 2021, 7:35 PM UTC · edited
3538
This information is incorrect, it is in fact a dps increase if the Druid casts starfire instead of wrath. Whether or not there are more beneficial people to use it on during lust is another question entirely.
3
Trying to reply to everyone here, please read some of my other comments providing more context about the casts and a full log example (there are many others you can find yourself) of starfire not increasing DPS in a considerable way. The bottom line is that PI is more beneficial on any other class than boomkin during lust, not that it doesn't help at all.
2
I get what you’re saying, but you say in the post that it doesn’t offer any additional benefit, which is incorrect. That’s all. I agree, literally anyone would be better to use it on. Like a tank even.
2
With PI and Lust the boomkin should be using Starfire over wrath. Absolutely worth doing though.
2†
I noted that even when you use starfire over wrath you still end up with the same net amount of stacks.
5
Eh, same number of stacks maybe, but your primary ramp up spell is doing 21% more damage. We were doing it last night and I definitely found I had a significant amount more damage with PI+Lust than PI or Lust alone. I'd have to see sims to know if it's more than another class would but it was definitely more.
1
Here is the cast breakdown of both of them. Same number of stacks, same total damage during lust, the one with PI was casting starfire like you said. There is no additional damage benefit of stacking PI and lust. https://i.imgur.com/pUt3zcR.png
4
This is showing casts, not damage. I don't care about number of casts, when everything is essentially GCD then of course casts are the same. However just looking at it with PI + Lust. I see 4 more star surges (at peak ravenous those can crit for 50k+ damage alone, but of course I don't know when they were cast). I also see 6 more starfires in exchange for 9 wraths which doesn't seem like it was done with the same efficiency. There are also 4 moonfires in the PI+Lust one which I'm guessing wasn't needed and was used for movement.
Also the Lust only one is using bear form and travel form? How am I supposed to look at this with any sort of real seriousness?
4
Can you just link the actual logs? The list only boomkin has half the starsurge casts and the same number of build spells with only wrath vs half and half, but he also has an IQD which represents a huge amount of damage. I'm just not seeing how it doesn't affect damage at all - suboptimal, sure, but not useless.
2
shame to see someone so uninformed trying to make a psa like this.
-1†
It says right in the original post: "result in the same total stacks of ravenous frenzy when you switch to casting starfire." Did you read it or just the title?
7
That in no way means it's not a damage increase. Now you're getting upvoted and people will generally assume you're correct when it seems to not be.
3
congrats. they got the same amount of stacks. The ravenous frenzy stacks are not everything and are essentially hard capped.
Starfire does MORE DAMAGE than wrath. It also generates MORE ASTRAL POWER than wrath. Getting PI with lust making you move to starfire certainly doesnt mean less damage is happening. You're also not considering the tickrate on the 3-4 dots that may be out at once is also uncapped by haste (more ticking of sun/moonfire = more shooting stars = more astral power as well).
All of these together with the giant ~70% flat damage increase from RF ~40% crit from the conduit mean even with being past the point of the haste cap for casting wraths PI is a huge damage increase.
3
Please look at the full reports I linked in other comments and the original post. Yes the person with PI gets more starsurges AND starfire casts, but the total damage done during lust is THE SAME.
1
Are you stacking Berserking with PI or not? Early PI would make me assume you get the higher stacks faster which should increase dps.
Not sure I'd base this off of a single log.
2
I linked one log excerpt as an example. Feel free to parse through other logs of multiple guilds/players, the story will be the same everywhere you look.
3
I agree that PI ought go elsewhere during lust, but by being able to switch to starfire it should result in a dps gain. That said, the impact is less than throwing it on a lock or whatever.
2
Switching to starfire does not result in a DPS gain, as I noted in the original post. Here is the cast breakdown of each of them, resulting in the same total damage during lust. https://i.imgur.com/pUt3zcR.png
2
It's also not a good set of logs to compare. The lust only guy casted starfall and only managed 6 SS. If the dps is equal then there is some other factor involved, right?
2
Look at any log you want on WCL where one boomkin gets PI during lust and the other doesn't. They all tell the same story, here's another one.
1
I was curious, so I simmed with and without PI on a 1 minute patchwerk.
With PI: 16,457 DPS Without: 15,721 DPS
This is using a troll boomkin. The reported margin of error is ~16dps.
Definitely not disagreeing that PI should go elsewhere during lust, esp for troll boomies.
4
Where is the dps in that screenshot? The pi guy got more starsurges off because starfire is more AP as well as more damage.
1
That screenshot is from the same log as the damage screenshot in the original post.
3
Need to find a set of logs that are more comparable. Logically it doesn't make sense for it to be equal considering how much harder starfire hits and how much more AP you get.
Number of casts and stacks will obviously be the same.
And I'll reiterate again, PI should most likely not be given to boomie during lust, it's the assertion of equal dps I am not understanding, and which your logs do not back up.
2
[deleted]
2
this is just wrong. boomkin switching to starfires is not the reason you still want to pi them during lust.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xkF9bqgMVJG9wHfYi3MyWP
the timing just changes, during lust you want to pi the boomkin at the end of the frenzy, because they're so overbuffed that the haste just benefiting the dots and Fury of Elune is enough to still make them the prime target.
also taking your info from literally 1 iteration is incredibly dumb, use sims.
2
[deleted]
1
So what I gathered is you should reroll to sp and pi yourself
1
Is PI on Venthyr Boomie without lust a bigger gain than UH DK with Army?
1
Hopefully this doesn't start another flame war, but I believe PI on venthyr boomie OUTSIDE of lust is a bigger gain than UH DK with army. I have not done extensive research on this myself, so someone else feel free to correct me. Based on this sheet (that I did not make), 2 PIs on venthyr boomy is a bigger gain than 3 PIs on unholy DK, which makes it seem as though the PI on opener will be bigger for boomy, but I don't have hard numbers on that.
1
Unfortunately that spreadsheet doesn't tell you anything about which spec is better to PI on pull, since it's simming multiple PIs over a 5 minute fight. I'm no theorycrafting expert, but the sims I've done on real characters show UH DK gaining significantly more DPS from PI than a Venthyr Boomie.
1
This is good to know. Thank you!
1
Good to know