The Surge fixes a lot of the things I disliked about Dark Souls

I've always liked the idea of the Dark Souls series, but found the execution awkward and, frankly, often boring. Enter Deck 13, who after publishing Dark Souls rip-off Lord of the Fallen, decided to make something a bit more unique.

The Surge is set in the nearish future, where automation is leaving many unemployed, the world's resources have been nearly drained, and a company called CREO (who definitely aren't Google, Amazon, Microsoft, or any other contemporary tech giant) is leading the world in tech innovation, especially in regards to their rigs, modular exosuits that can increase the user's speed, strength, protection etc. You play Warren, a new, wheelchair-bound employee for whom everything goes horribly wrong almost as soon as he reports for the job, and soon finds himself waking up in the ruins of CREO's manufacturing and office complex, now able to walk thanks to his shiny new rig.

While the Souls feeling is there from the start, The Surge is eager to show you how it's different. After bopping a couple of bots with a lead pipe and being introduced to Operations, or OPS, the central hub of each area, Warren learns that most, if not all, of the other rig users at the complex have been driven violently insane, and we're introduced to the combat proper.

Combat differs from Souls in a few ways. It's still a game of careful approach, baiting out attacks and timing yours, and stamina management, but you also need to manage your energy, generated by attacking enemies and used to activate a variety of abilities, your stability/poise, and where on the enemy your attacking.
Energy gain is affected by your weapon and some pieces of equipment, and degrades over time - one of the most important uses is in executing enemies below a certain health percentage, but it also powers your drone and can be spent on powers granted by implants.
Stability is granted by equipment, and I feel is much more forgiving than Souls. Once you're wearing some equipment, you're unlikely to be staggered by the first attack of most enemies, giving you a moment to change tack if you decide you've made a mistake, but also the opportunity to keep up your momentum and stagger the enemy before they can stagger you.
As for where you're attacking an enemy, once locked onto an enemy in the Surge, you can scroll through which specific body part you want to lock onto. Enemies have semi randomised equipment, so while attacking the head of one enemy might be best, a different one might have armour there, reducing your damage. That doesn't mean you don't want to attack that guy's head though - if he's wearing a helmet you don't have, smashing his head up enough before executing him will let you tear his head off, and take the helmet to reuse how you wish, which brings us to items and equipment.

After tearing your enemies armoured limbs off to eat and gain their powers salvage back at OPS by dealing enough damage to that specific limb before executing the enemy, you can build your own parts, and equip them however you wish. With options for head, body, both arms and both legs, you can potentially have equipment from 6 different sets on, each with different bonuses and drawbacks. Combined, they'll affect everything from how much damage you absorb to how fast you move and attack, how much more or less you damage armoured and unarmoured body parts, even how much energy certain abilities require.
Wandering around, you'll also find various implants which can be slotted into your rig to change some of its functions. If you want to increase your health to take more hits, you can find an implant. If you want to see the enemies health bars, you can find an implant. Gaining more energy, losing energy slower, gaining health when performing an execution, and half a dozen different ways of healing (from a stock of injectibles that are replenished at OPS to a heal that draws off the rig's built up energy) all exist as implants, and the only limits to implants and armour are the number of slots you have and amount of power your rig can provide.
Because Dark Souls' entire levelling up system was consolidated into a single stat, your rig power, you aren't locked into any builds at any point in the game. Levelling up is achieved through the standard collecting of souls and spending at a bonfire (scrap and OPS in The Surge), but it doesn't affect your other stats - if you decide you're good enough at dodging that you don't need any bonus health anymore, you can just swap some implants, and turn that health into stamina, or more skill with certain weapons. Combined with a weapon proficiency system that's based on the amount of damage you do with each of the 5 weapon classes, The Surge is a soulslike that really encourages experimentation, instead of just finding something that works for you and sticking with it.

Finally, I vastly prefer the level design. While the Souls series does a fantastic job of interconnecting the different areas, The Surge opts to gradually connects more parts of an area to it's OPS. As you progress through an area you'll find doors to open and lifts to power that provide shortcuts to different parts of the area. For me, this lead to much more of a sense of exploration, and more choices on how to move forward, rather than the Souls experience of following a relatively direct path to the next bonfire and finding shortcuts by exploring the few side paths along the way. You also have more direction, knowing something about where you should be going next (even if you don't), rather than vague hints - compare the crestfallen soldier's instructions to ring bells above and below to a holographic executive just asking you to come rescue her from the executive suite, which you can find by looking for the "executive suites" signs.

All in all, I can totally understand why hardcore Souls fans would still see it as a cheap and easy imitation, but I've always felt that too much of Souls' difficulty came from its flaws. Combat in particular involved too much waiting for the right opening, almost to the point of being an incredibly slow rhythm game, but the Surge rewards a lot more approaches as long as you aren't being stupid about it. I actually feel that deaths are my fault for doing something stupid or getting complacent, rather than not quite pressing a button at exactly the right time. I guess ultimately it's a Souls game that rewards you for doing well rather than punishes you for not being perfect.

Posted Jul 17, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC · edited

2341
_GlitchInTheVoid•

I respect your opinion, but I disagree with pretty much everything. First, while Dark Souls might be a logical comparison, it would be much fairer to compare The first Surge game to Dark Souls 3 since they are much closer together release-wise.

The only reason the combat in The Surge is hard, is because enemies attack much quicker than you, hit harder (insta deaths) or have some weird ass movesets. Combat just didn't feel rewarding at all and every death felt meaningless because I never really learnt something. So no comparison to DS there.

The level design is extremely bland and uninteresting. There are no memorable places, only boring factories and corridors which makes any shortcut pretty unexciting aswell since everything looks the same. I can still memorise pretty much every corner in the first Dark Souls on the other hand.

I gave this game multiple chances and I can't get myself to finish it. They didn't put nearly as much thought into it as From Software, which is one of the reasons why their games are so beloved. The Surge 2 seems to fix a lot of these issues though and I might give that one a chance.

23
HammeredWharf•

The Surge 2 has solid gameplay, but I think it's still relatively boring level design wise. It's a generic sci-fi town instead of a generic sci-fi factory. It has more variety, but it still has that "discount Dead Space" style.

It's still one of the better Souls-likes, but I'd say only Nioh 2 and Blasphemous are on par with FromSoft's games. Partly because they feel less like Souls and more like their own things.

11
_GlitchInTheVoid•

Have you ever played Salt & Sanctuary? I really enjoyed that one personally. I found it pretty astonishing that it was developed by two people (I think?)

5
HammeredWharf•

S&S was great as a budget 2D Souls experience, and it's really cool how it implemented so many RP/Souls mechanics with such a tiny team. But it didn't really do anything outstanding, so while it was good, I still found it a step down from the FromSoft/Nioh 2/Blasphemous tier.

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_GlitchInTheVoid•

Yeah you're right, I really enjoyed it anyway though. I'm looking forward to Blasphemous if it is really that great! I'm still playing the first Nioh

5
Nrgte•

I have one big issue with Salt & Sanctuary. A 2D modern Metroidvania needs a map system. I think that and the better boss design sets Blasphemous a step above S&S.

2
testspecimen85•

I liked the gameplay, but hated its flash-game aesthetic. Had to stop playing it.

1
ElectricFred•

I have had the exact opposite experience, I had significantly more fun playing the Surge than I did Dark Souls

8
_GlitchInTheVoid•

And thats totally fine, I'm not here to tell what you should or shouldn't like, but I'm also not going to tell anybody that The Surge has better atmosphere, Level Design, Lore and combat than Dark Souls.

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ElectricFred•

Well, I tell people the combat is better, it's true. Dark Souls 100% wins in atmosphere and lore, but the Surge wins in Combat.

Honestly I feel the level design isn't that different, only thing you miss out on are the vistas but they have that in the Surge 2

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EvenOne6567•

Well, I tell people the combat is better, it's true

Subjectively, sure.

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_GlitchInTheVoid•

Dark Souls 100% wins in atmosphere and lore, but the Surge wins in Combat.

Again we should rather compare Dark Souls 3 (2016) or Bloodborne (2015) with The Surge (2017) than with the original Dark Souls (2011) and if you do that, the combat isn't all that much better, if at all. All the Surge has is the sluggishness it carried over from Lords of the Fallen.

Honestly I feel the level design isn't that different

It couldn't be more different imo. I can't remember one memorable place from the Surge.

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1stNone•

Surge 2 pretty much improves all around as it takes place in a city, but I'd say it loses a lot of the atmosphere that the first one had.

The areas are a bit better/varied, but I wouldn't particularly call them memorable. Combat is better once you get a hang of the deflection system they added, though its quite a bit more clunky than Sekiro's at the start.

If I had to rank non-fromsoft souls-likes Nioh is #1 and Surge is #2, similar to what the other guy said. Though if you're big on the lore and story aspects Surge 2 is disappointing in that regard, imo.

3
_GlitchInTheVoid•

Would you recommend The Surge 2 to me if I didn't really like the first one?

4
1stNone•

Based on the reasons you disliked the first one you might like it, but its still not really at the level of where Fromsoft games are. I guess it depends on how much you enjoy non-fromsoft souls-likes in general, could be worth playing once or twice.

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_GlitchInTheVoid•

Thanks, I will probably give it a try at the very least

1
SundownKid•

Funny, as a Souls fan I thought the Surge ruined a lot of things that Dark Souls got correct.

  • The lore: it's not great compared to Souls. It's pretty obvious from the get-go that the nice happy tech CEO is going to be a megalomaniacal madman who unleashes the apocalypse. At least >!Horizon Zero Dawn!< didn't try to make that the entire mystery, just the setup.

  • The game balance: the enemies get ludicrously damaging lategame to the point they can oneshot you. It stops trying to be fair.

  • The level design: repetitive and boring. Dark Souls takes place post apocalypse but still has beauty in its falling apart and ruined areas. I also don't see how Surge is any different than DS1 with the shortcuts, each bonfire in DS1 usually has a couple ways to get back to it, until late game.

13
NuklearAngelOP•

I have to admit, I've never understood what people like about the Souls lore. I found it to be fairly mild dark fantasy, with a hodgepodge of bosses that ranged from making total sense (Ornstein and Smough guarding Gwynevere) to just being there because they thought it would make for a cool boss fight (Taurus Demon, Gaping Dragon, Moonlight Butterfly). PAX might not have been inspired, but I understood why a big mech was there and attacking me. Still don't have a clue why the Gaping Dragon was down there. Did they get it in there somehow, or did they build the sewer around it?

9
bumbasaur•

People just like the lore cause it's "hidden" and then they check them out of wiki and feel "wow now I know more than you".

14
SundownKid•

Taurus, Gaping and Butterfly all have their incongruous locations if not explained, then hinted at by the lore. (Taurus is there because it moved there from Demon Ruins to kill Undeads and make them go hollow while they are still weak before they can threaten the Bed of Chaos, Gaping was a dragon who was forced to live in the sewers by Gwyn's dragon hunts and mutated into an abomination by hunger, Butterfly escaped from Seath because it was an unwilling subject of his experiments). The lore is likely deeper than you realize, but Vaatividya does some good explanations of it.

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NuklearAngelOP•

I know there are explanations in the lore, the problem is that it all comes from just withholding information. I don't mind there being additional lore hidden behind analysis and inference, but DS refuses to give you straight answers about anything, so working out what the lore is becomes an entirely seperate activity to playing the game. Those aren't things I had a clue about while actually playing the game, and would have otherwise only found out by specifically looking up youtubers who concentrate on explaining the lore.

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SundownKid•

Most of the lore can be figured out by one player if they spend enough time looking over it. We aren't talking FEZ hypercube here or having an entire forum figuring out obscure, coded messages. Things are hidden in plain sight via environmental storytelling and item descriptions. The Youtubers just give a shortcut for people who aren't inclined to do that, yet still want the experience nonetheless. But for people who do enjoy doing that, the games are great.

1
pick-a-spot•

Surge 1 was promising.

Surge 2 was great. Some players prefer surge 1 more due to its consistent claustrophobic atmosphere.

But surge 2 IMO , knows what it is. It’s no longer a dark souls clone and becomes its own thing. And is better for it

11
[deleted]•

I really enjoyed The Surge. It was surprisingly a really fun souls like game. Loved the limb cutting mechanic and it's honestly very underrated. No more depending on RNG to give you your desired loot. Just target that limb and that piece is yours. It made collecting entire armor set pieces so much fun. Combat was also pretty good and felt impactful. But it didn't have animation cancelling which sometimes made it feel clunky. You really have to commit to your moves. But once you get used to it , it's not that bad. The difficulty does increase a bit towards the end and those fucking black crystal thingies ( Nanite Mass ) were a big pain in the ass. But other than that , for the most part I didn't really have any trouble dealing with most lategame stuff. Bosses were cool , but a bit on the easy / gimmicky side , but still fun to fight. But The Black Cerberus was pretty hard.

The lore is decent and I do like how the game sets everything up. As you progress you see things going from bad to worse. There were some genuinely disturbing / depressing moments , side quests and audio logs which added to the overall feel of the game. Especially that one scene where near the end >!you walk into this meeting room and see all those top shots ( who you thought were partially responsible for this mess ) dead connected by those machines and forced to vote against their will.!< And that whole side quest where a father is looking for her daughter and >!when you find her she was just a machine!<. Cliched but pretty well done. Reminds me of Deus Ex mixed with the Dead Space.

But I have to disagree about the level design. I mean I do like how each level loops around and has those inter-connected shot cuts. And I really appreciate how they commit to this level design till the very end. But one big problem it had was how everything looked so generic and so similar. In Dark Souls every single location looks so memorable and distinct and has a whole different feel to it. Each location has something special that makes you remember it. Undead Burge , Lordran , Catacombs , Majula , etc. as soon as you hear these names you know the levels. You remember how they looked like , their basic layout , what made them so special etc. But in the Surge , I really can't remember the name of single level or how it looked like. Because by the end everything just mixes up. It works for what setting the game was going for but unfortunately also ends being quite forgettable.

And I also hate DLC pricing set by the devs/publishers. I mean they never go on a decent sale and why the bloody hell are the DLCs / Season Pass more expensive than Surge 1 and even Surge 2. That's just crazy.

Still The Surge is definitely a worthy souls like game and it's worth checking out if you are into this genre.

6
Alucardhasrisen•

I’ve tried to tackle The Surge twice and was about 6 hours into it on the later. I wish I could like it but it feels half baked to.

2

I enjoyed bother Surges very much, but for me they still don't compete with the Souls games. Atmosphere, lore, build variety, enemy variety, boss fights, and more are all better in the OG Souls games.

I think I actually prefer The Surge 1 over 2. Although 2 had a better variety of areas, there is something about the atmosphere in the first one. The song that plays in the OPS added a lot to it, for me. I think they were going for that Firelink Shrine/RE Saferoom kinda vibe, and it worked. I loved the feeling of being one of the last humans in a place so mechanized, fighting against all odds to retain the humanity that the huge corporations have taken from us. Too bad Warren was such a bland character.

The level design was goddamn confusing, though. You could say that about any Souls game but this was sometimes on another level. It really tested my patience sometimes.

While it was cool being able to swap out implants according to the situation, the "build" variety basically centered around which weapon you wanted to use. Not bad, but still more stifling than DS, and it doesn't necessarily make you want to do a 2nd playthrough to try a new weapon out.

Overall I thought the Souls formula was done different enough to stand out. I can see myself playing it again at some point in the future. 8/10.

2
1stNone•

I can't help but ask how much or what Dark Souls game you've played?

Anyway I liked the lock on system, but it feels kind of routine/grindy honestly. You see an enemy, first you cut off their weapon arm, then you cut off each of their armor pieces, and then once you have them all you take the unarmored part every time. Its just not a creative system, imo. Its better than farming an enemy for their armor set in DS, though.

Energy system is decent but wasted in Surge 1. Its used much better in the sequel imo.

I'm surprised you prefer the lack of build variety of Surge 1. Granted I'm not sure which DS you played other than 1. Maybe you're the type of person that likes to play a game once and that's it, which would make it a better system I suppose.

Level design I feel like we played completely different games. The Surge 1 levels are completely unmemorable. Dark, industrial corridors that look the same everywhere. There's hardly any secrets or interesting things to find, and shortcuts barely matter because you barely have to return to past areas.

I won't deny that Dark Souls is more vague, but what is there really to find in Surge? Compared to Dark Souls its completely lacking in exploration rewards. Also the level gates are stupid and demotivate it further.

Again, I don't know how much DS you played, but I also don't understand why the discussion is so fixed on DS anyways? Surge is obviously a souls-like but I'm confused why you've centered the entire discussion on comparing it to a game(s) you don't even like.

All that said, if you liked the Surge you'll enjoy the sequel. The combat is leagues ahead though the story goes in the trash along with some aesthetic themes.

2
NuklearAngelOP•

I played most of the prepare to die edition (got bored and started playing something else in the lead up to Nito) and 4 or 5 hours of DSII before having the same issue. I also spent a few afternoons occasioanlly playing and mostly watching a friend play Bloodbourne, which I liked a little more, but mostly found very similar.

Not sure what to tell you about comparing it to Dark Souls - it's a Souls-like, or game that's like Dark Souls, and my previous experience of the genre has been Dark Souls. It's also not the most populated genre, so the plurality of games to compare it to are Dark Souls games.

And yeah, very few games have a good enough story to convince me to play through a second time. Unless the gameplay actually centres around it, like in Rogue-likes, I'm not particularly interested in retreading the same story and environs just for the sake of trying out a new build.

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[deleted]•

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MegaDeox•

I feel like The Surge is great, but Dark Souls is more special. I think Surge is "tighter", as it is shorter and well designed generally, but it doesn't feel as varied. The wirld design is a bit bland, but I do like the enemy designs. The combat system is very unique with the body part targeting, but the weapon variety is only 5 (which is still plenty, but it's not as comprehensive as DS).

Dark Souls has much nore atmosphere, I love the story telling, and the world design is better, but there are some terrible parts and areas that clash hard with the brilliant places. I'm looking at you, Bed of Chaos.

Overall, two great games that everyone should try.

1