Who do you think is the group pictured below arriving at Caladan? The Guild, perhaps? Bene Gesserit? Emperor's messengers?
The helmet white suits definitely make me think of the Guild. Thoughts?
Posted Jul 22, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC · edited
The guy in front is a representative of the emperor. Notice the golden lion pattern on his robes (IE the Golden Lion throne).
Behind him I see Guild Navigators with Orange spice gas tank-helmets.
The ones in black I'm not sure about. CHOAM representatives?
Nice catch, I should have paid more attention to the lion pattern.
And yes, definitely think those are Guild Navigators in the helmets.
Actually come to think about it, the frame is divided into CHOAM (?), Emperor, Guild. Much like the tripod-structure of ruling that is described in the books. Or was one of the legs of that tripod the faufreleuches? I can't recall exactly.
The tripod structure of power described at the start of Dune is between the Emperor, the Landsraad council, and the Guild. CHOAM is more of a universal measure of power, as anyone can own shares in the CHOAM company which is the the company responsible for running all interplanetary trade. CHOAM doesn't directly vie for power per se.
Part of why the Atreides are significant, is because despite being a poor house from a poor world, they had come to represent a large number of houses within the Landseraad in a similar position. This was problematic for the Emperor for whom it is essential to keep the power of the Landseraad in check.
Ironically a huge part of the Atreides rise to power was there very longstanding and public rivalry with the Harkonnens, who are one of the biggest and most powerful houses. The fear other houses have of the Harkonnens or Emperor devouring their small houses one at a time is what made the Atreides, even before the events of Dune, something of an icon and leaders to the other lesser houses.
!It is for this reason that the evidence of Sardukar involvement in the attack on the Atreides would be so daunting for the Emperor. The plot of the Emperor was to give the Harkonnens the power to wipe out the Atreides, both removing one of the threats from within the Landseraad, but also drawing the ire of the other houses to the Harkonnens, hopefully serving to further divide the Landseraad against itself. If the involvement of the Emperor was fully public, this might backfire and unite the Landseraad against him, which further spoiler, it does. It is actually the evidence of Paul's survival, and evidence of the Emperor's treachery, as well as the threat to the availability of spice to the Spacing guild, that allows Paul to take control of 2 of the three legs of power of the empire, and usurp the Emperor. With his monopoly on spice, Paul then used the guild to slowly disassemble the Landseraad, who even as this was happening still widely supported Paul since he was seen as justified in removing the power of the large houses, especially the Harkonnens, and most of the Landseraad at least at first had much to gain. This is all meant to be analogous to the way Hitler and the Nazis disassembled the power structures of Weimar republic one piece at a time.!<
Nice summary. So how do the Bene Gesserit fit into the power structure? They're present in every House. And the Emperor's. Yet everybody acknowledges their first loyalty is to some unknown secret Gesserit Plan?
Ie, while there is a triad of power, it's all wrapped up tightly by the BG. That's a power all its own.
House Atreides isn’t poor, they’re a House Major and Leto is related by blood to Shaddam.
They own an entire planet in fief complete.
They aren’t as rich as the Harkonnen until they take Arrakis where on paper they become the wealthiest house in the Landsraaad.
But they are never described as poor.
Thufir said that there were 3 guild navigators , im sure i saw 4 guild reps with red space helmets
The navigators would be on the heigliner in orbit
my opinion
Saw the Imax preview. There is going to be at least one Bene Gesserit in all black, veiled in the imperial delegation. Not sure about the other people in black. And we get a close up shot of the Bene Gesserit… and it is not Gaius Helen Moheim.
According to Villeneuve, those are not navigators, but representatives. The navigators will probably appear in Dune 2. https://nerdbot.com/2021/11/19/daily-dune-those-werent-guild-navigators-on-caladan/
No chance he's the Emperor himself? If he isn't, my next guess would be Hasimir Fenring.
Not according to those who saw the full scene.
im in hong kong watched it already its just a new scene lol that character isnt showed anywhere else, and btw for some reason liet is female
The guys in the back are Spacing Guild reps, but I doubt they are navigators, maybe on their way to become ones. I think it was said navigators wouldn't appear in this movie, and navigators float around in big tanks, I doubt Denis would take creative license with that.
As someone else said, I think they are probably early stage Guild Navigators who haven't yet changed much to require full tanks. The end of Dune has some Guild representatives that Paul clearly calls Navigators, who are not floating in tanks... I was actually just reading that part again last night. :)
The ones in the trailer do appear to have orange gas in their helmets, so it fits.
Its an Imperial Envoy, sent by the Emperor. He is accompanied by what looks to be stage 1 guild navigators.
Gonna tentatively guess guild as there would be much planning involved for a planetary move of a House Major
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That’s an imperial envoy and a spacing guild delegation
Can someone tell the name of the ship from this scene ?
Kevin
Big ball ship
Saw the IMAX event last night, they showed this entire scene.
The
Heraldof the Change is the man in front. Behind him is are representatives of the Spacing Guild and some Bene Gesserit, and other unnamed/unidentified individuals (also assumed to be rep's of the Emperor). The importance of the scene is to show the Emperor calling on House Atreides to accept assignment with the other powers that be present for the ceremony.EDIT: Not sure why I had the word Herald in my mind, but I think they maybe even said that in the preview last night. In the book its 'Judge of the Change'.
I think the man is Benjamin Clementine
Yeah, when I saw him in the trailer this morning I flipped. I really love Benjamin Clementine.
Is that Benjamine coming to sing "Adios" to Leto ?
Thank you! I was wow who he was
So wait, why did they separate the Judge of the Change into two characters?
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Okay, so another case of a change to the pre-arrakis part of the story... yay.
Awesome! Thanks for the detailed answers!
Love the costume designs, so excited for this film!
Any mention of CHOAM, Landsraad, or Houses Major/Minor? Anything about political affiliations besides ‘The Empire’?
Lol, we aren't even getting the Na-Baron, why would they go that far.
They definitely said herald in the preview
I thought Herald as well
Maybe it was Harold the Judge
Yes I was certain they said “Herald of the Change”…the “Judge of the Change” is Liet Kynes
There is a judge of the change in the book, but this is a new character and is in fact a Herald.
I thought the Judge of the Change was Liet Kynes, so this would be someone else.