I see too many ecofacist talking points on this sub. Humans are not the "virus", capitalism is.
Posted Aug 21, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC
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With regard to animal agriculture specifically (which the image kinda isn't about), I think the problem is a human one, not a capitalism. Even if you snapped your fingers and got rid of capitalism, people would still breed, torture, and kill animals. I think most self-identified leftists would not get rid of animal agriculture, though I might be incorrect there. Many leftists I have seen have defended the enterprise of animal agriculture (even when the question was separated from capitalism).
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Right, capitalism has made it all much faster, worse, and more destructive, but the impulse to dominate was there before capitalism, and would remain afterwards. I don't feel any less alone as a vegan in leftist/anti-capitalist sources than I do in the general population.
In fact, the idea of an idyllic, exploitation-free past seems like mostly an invention of animal-exploiting capitalism, to make you feel better about buying milk because the picture on the carton is the Windows XP default desktop with a smiling cow photoshopped into the foreground.
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Yes, animals were abused and killed before capitalism, but the profit motive has turned this up to 11 to give us factory farming, deep sea trawlers and mass deforestation.
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This is dumb. You're not an eco fascist if you think the human population contributes to environmental damage and that controlling it or manipulating it is a valid strategy.
Even if you get rid of capitalism, redistribute wealth more fairly, and restrict consumption of resources to sustainable levels, you're gonna have a situation where the more people there are, the less quality of life.
For example, if I remember correctly, the world can only sustain 1 billion people if everyone on earth had the quality of life of the average British person.
Socialists in a post capitalist world will have to deal with overpopulation while enacting wealth redistribution policies and the reality is that we in the developed world are going to lose a lot materially if sustainability is to be considered.
Because ignoring sustainability and bringing the whole world up to living standards on par with the average American or British or German or whatever is another environmental disaster waiting to happen.
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If you're suggesting that indigenous people have never greatly altered the planet or been responsible for mass extinctions, I have some bad news for you.
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The "it's not people it's capitalism" is a huge uneducated cop out. The problem is much more nuanced than both "people are the problem" or "capitalism is the problem".
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It’s true the invisible hand of the market is pushing us off a cliff
3†
Most people would be content with enough, except advertising and marketing makes it seem like we should always want more. It's insidious and preys on people's insecurities; it's also very effective.
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I guess we should turn off the Martian capitalism beam that's turning everyone into capitalists.
I knew that thing wasn't any good.
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Time for some grand ol wealth redistribution, taxation and elimination of tax havens.
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Yeah, basically. I recommend Bookchin to anyone who buys into this human virus bullcrap.
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[removed]
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Ecofascist*
1†
Reminds me of this gem
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Animals werent treated any better in the Soviet Union.
Please dont conflate your economic views with the liberation movement that is Veganism.
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Anti-capitalism is when you reinstate the Soviet union yes
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All I'm saying is that a different economic system wouldn't necessarily help animals, and vegan Capitalism could certainly exist.
Animals were exploited in every evonomic system humans have ever established.
So please dont try to make veganism into some anti capitalist movement or attach any economic model to Veganism.
You could have Vegan Feudalism, Vegan Anarchism, a vegan command economy etc.
If we try to link veganism to a complete change of economic system, it becomes much less achievable and less appealing to the majority.
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Overpopulation is intentional capitalist propaganda to deflect anger at destructive choices and prevent sales from dropping, just like the idea that “everything is fine in moderation”. In reality we could sustain a much larger population without poverty, but the rich would be less rich.