Predictions for Arc and Solar Keywords/Verbs

Discussion

TL;DR - With the preview of the Void 3.0 changes, I wanted to take this opportunity to speculate on and discuss what abilities Bungie will turn into Keywords for Arc 3.0 and Solar 3.0 reworks.

What do we know about Void?

To paraphrase parts of the TWAB, Bungie will be applying the same methodology that approached Stasis with, making certain effects into mechanics shared between the subclasses of the same element. This is to give a each element it's own "feel" and specialty while allowing other game components to tap into that shared language. To help figure out what Arc and Solar might look like, let's analyze the Void keywords.

Bungie took existing effects from all three subclasses and made them into keyword "verbs".

Negative Void Effects: Suppress // Weaken // Volatile

Positive Void Effects: Void Overshield // Invisibility // Devour

Overall, Void Light seems to have a very defensive and controlling theme to its abilities.

Suppression is an effect that is pretty synonymous with the Void. Suppression has been in the game from the beginning with Suppressor Grenade and grew into Shadow Shot, Shield Bash and a few other perks like the reworked Bombardiers. This shuts down abilities and stops AI enemies from shooting.

Weaken may have started with the Sunbreaker's Melting Point (which exists in the form of Hammer Strike on top tree Sunbreaker at the moment) but due to the nature of Shadow Shot, the inclusion of Shattering Strike on Wraith Nightstalker, and the Oppressive Darkness seasonal mod, it appears like Bungie is tightening Void's grip on this damage boosting debuff. Weaken will now slow in addition to increasing damage dealt to the target, while AI enemies lose fire rate and accuracy.

Volatile is a new term for an existing effect. This is a the Commander Sentinel's Void Detonator turned into a core mechanic of Void Light. This stands out from the other Void effects for being much more offensive in nature.

For the Void buffs, it appears they've taken the iconic effects from each Void subclass an made it a keyword feature of the Void element. Void Overshield from Sentinel's Defensive Strike. Nightstalker's various ways to become invisible. And the Devour effect from the Attunement of Hunger Voidwalker. Most likely, these effects will remain centered in their class of origin, but will on occasion be opened up to the other two classes to varying extent much in the same way Revenants, Shadebinders, and Behemoths are focused on Stasis Slow, Freeze, and Shatter respectively.

I presume that this is going to be the benchmark for the other two elements. Three negative effects and tree positive effects, all pulled from existing abilities. Slight tweaks to balance them and make them operate in a broader framework are to be expected.

Arc Keyword Predictions

Negative: Blind // Arc Chain // Electrify

Positive: Pulsewave // Resistance // Amplify

Blind: I'm pretty confident that Blind will probably make up one of the Arc Debuffs. Blind has been an effect on Flashbang Grenades since D1, and it exists on both the Current Arcstrider (Ebb & Flow) and Wind Arcstrider (Disorienting Blow). And most recently, they put it on the buffed Bombardiers as the Arc effect. So I suspect they might change the names of these existing effect to be "Blind". My only worry is that Arc Blind would be too similar to Void Suppression in PvE, so I hope something gets added or adjusted to make it more distinct.

Arc Chains: This is less a status effect and more an... elemental effect. Stormcallers would most likely still maintain a focus on this effect, but it seems like a very natural choice to include in the offensive Arc effects and it would be a very evocative tool for the other Arc subclasses to have. I believe they will most likely call it Arc Chain to make it synonymous with the Arc Web effect with Exotics, weapon perks, and armor mods could then make use of this now keyword ability. Although that would really power up Arc Web, so I suspect some balancing will occur with that, so Riskrunner doesn't become the ultimate battery for the Stormcaller.

Electrify: I feel pretty confident in saying that middle tree Arcstrider's Electrify effect is the most obvious choice for an Arc "Verb". At present, triggering Electrify process will cause the target to become disoriented and grants you ability energy for doing so. I think it makes sense to have it fill a similar "priming" role that the Stasis Freeze or Void Volatile effects perform for their respective elements. I think the two most likely outcomes for detonating this either the blind effect or launching Arc Chains. In either case, the other effect could make an appearance as an Aspect or Fragment.

Pulsewave: I'd say pulsewave is probably the weakest link in the Stormcaller trees, while it is far from a "bad" effect I would not say it is particularly resonant ability compared to the likes of Arc Web or Arc Soul. Looking at the effects Arcstriders and Strikers have, movement appears to be a subtheme of the Arc element. This is further exemplified by the recent sprint speed buff added to Electrostatic Surge. Turning Pulsewave into a universal Arc effect would further cement this specialization.

Resistance: To give the Arc subclasses their own defensive mechanic, I believe Bungie may give them keyworded access to the "Resist" effect. While Void also has a few Resist effects in the Protective Light mod and Omnioculus exotic, Void is already getting Overshields (and Devour for healing), I think it makes sense to expand things past the Wind Arcstrider's Lightning Reflexes.

Amplify: The Arc element has quite a number of CQC related effects. From the Combat Style mods alone, we have Reactive Pulse, Lucent Blade, Striking Light, Heavy Handed, Strength of Rasputin, Well of Ions, and Overcharge Wellmaker. Therefore, I think there is a strong chance that Bungie will codify the melee damage boosts that the Arcstrider, Striker, and aforementioned Well of Ions share. Due to melee combat being less than desirable in higher end content, I hope that an effect like this would be buffed from the current levels of Combination Blow and Knockout, despite already having been buffed during Arc Week

Solar Keyword Predictions

Negative: Burn // Detonate // Sunspot

Positive: Heal // Empower // Temper

Burn: This damage over time effect is pretty much a given for a Solar debuff. It's been in the game since D1 and is on all three Solar Subclasses. It's an offensive damage over time effect and it can be used to convey other effects. I feel like Gunslingers are most likely to take up the burning niche with their Knife Trick and Incendiary Grenade.

Detonate: Looking at the other elements, I think we are indeed moving towards effects that prime a target with one effect and reward you with another. For Solar, we actually have a few cases of this already: the Sunshot and Ticuu's Divination exotics, and the reworked Igniting Touch. Solar just has a general explosion focus as demonstrated by the Solar Warmind Cell mods, Elemental Well mods, Explosive Pyre, the "Combustion" explosion on Celestial Nighthawk, Celestial Fire, etc. The Igniting Touch rework (and Celestial Fire to a lesser extent) makes me think Warlocks are the most likely class to take up this keyword as a specialization.

[Edit] Highlight/Illuminate: Having talked to u/VDRawr in the comments, I think leaning into the Sunshot's highlight effect might be a better an alternative to Detonate. On it's own it doesn't really do much, but I think it would be a good vehicle for other effects. I'm thinking that it would serve as the "primer" for Solar with a burn being the reward for "detonating" it rather than the other way around presented above. While this would still have similarities to the other "priming" effects, Freeze, Volatile, and the reworked Electrify which I theorize about. I think having the burn come from triggering this effect would feel distinct. Maybe less upfront damage, but you get the burn and burn synergies. I'm still not sure whether Hunters or Warlocks pick up this Highlight/Illuminate effect. My gut says Hunters would make the most sense with Warlocks focusing on the burns, but I think Hunters currently have more support for burn builds.

Sunspot: Since Weaken appears to be leaning more in the direction of the Void, Sunspots are the only remaining choice that that makes sense to me. Sunbreakers would obviously still maintain their focus on the effect, but it would become available through other forms, like weapons and armor.

Heal: I think healing is the most obvious route to go with to fill the defensive buff role for Solar. Both the Solar Warlock and Solar Titan have built in healing effects: Sol Invictus, Divine Protection, Phoenix Dive (and Rift). Not only that, but we have seen other healing effects associated with Solar such as the Heal Thyself and Kindling the Flame CWL mods, the Fireteam Medic Warmind Cell mod, and Well of Life Elemental Well mod.

The only issue that I see here is the lack of an existing healing effect on Gunslingers. Giving them healing could prove dangerous in the Crucible, but it is something that would serve them well in PvE. Thankfully, we've seen more and more conditional triggers and independent scaling versus Guardians. Otherwise, perhaps a large Recovery bonus like what Well of Healing provides?

Empower: Similar to healing, empowerment seems like one of the most logical Solar effects to turn into a keyword. Grace Dawnblades are able to empower allies with Guiding Flame and Sunbreakers can boost their damage with Sun Warrior. Turning this into a keyword opens it up to other interactions and offers it to Gunslingers in some capacity. If anyone is worried about this being a nerf to Sunbreakers, I don't think it would be since Sun Warrior can be adjusted so it extends the damage boost from your weapons to other damage sources.

Temper: This is the one I have the least confidence in, but of the existing Solar abilities, the Tempered Metal, Chains of Woe, and Practice Makes Perfect weapon buffs is the only mechanic that really stands out to me as being viable for keywording. With the general trend for Solar mods to focus on "firepower", I think having Solar being the element that boosts weapons the most feels natural. There is definitely overlap with some current effects like Heart of the Pack, Turn the Tide, and Whisper of Hedrons, but not enough that I think it becomes a problem. It would pair very well with the damage bonus from empower if nothing else.

Closing

So what do you think Bungie has in store for Solar and Arc 3.0? Are there any other effects you think will become mainline abilities for the elements rather than what I've put on this list?

I'm really looking forward to these reworks. For all its Crucible problems, I really enjoy the design of the Stasis mechanics in PvE.

Posted Sep 1, 2021, 6:03 AM UTC · edited

2917
atejas•

Detonate sounds a lot like Void's Volatile debuff. Not sure how you avoid stepping on each other's toes there.

With the void rework, I bet enough stacks of Weaken will apply Suppress, the same way that Slow>Freeze. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept a similar trend up for the other elements.

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DefiantMarsOPArchitect in Training•

I'm really unsure of how said Detonate would work myself. I was just going off of what seems likely based on what we have in the game right now.

It is very possible that they just make a new effect. Most of the Solar exotics have burning or combustive behaviors, so I'm not really seeing any obvious alternative aside from the Highlight on Sunshot? But what else would it aside from make them show more visibly, if that is a route Bungie goes for? Maybe stack Highlight to trigger a burn? That'd be kind of like Volatile, but enough of a difference to work with, I would think.

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VDRawr•

They would have a lot of overlap, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Blowing up people is fun. Chains of explosions are one of the most satisfying things you can do in this game. Forcing them all into just one subclass would be rather restrictive.

They might differentiate them by their sizes, or delays. Maybe void explosions have larger range, but are delayed, while solar explosions happen instantly but are a bit smaller, or something.

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Alexcoolps•

With void and probably solar and arc getting 3 positive effects on top of 3 status effects, could stasis ever get the 3 positive effects as well at some point as otherwise it may feel more incomplete

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DefiantMarsOPArchitect in Training•

For sure. I hope Stasis will eventually be expanded after the Light reworks. At the very least more melees and alternate Super options, since it seems the Light subclasses will have multiple choices.

As for the positive effects, I feel like Stasis Shards are already one of them. Not sure what the other effects might be.

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godwolf10974•

I agree I wish you could use silence and squall like spectral blades

2
BlueFHS•

Lmao I know this is very late but I have a few ideas. Stasis, depending on the aspects and fragments you’re using, can heal you/give you an overshield (whisper of rime), recharge your abilities (Stasis shards), grant you faster ability cooldowns (whisper or shards/torment), give you damage resistance (Whisper of Chains or new Hunter arms), or buff your weapon’s damage or stats (Whisper of Impetus/Rending/Hedrons).

So I could see the “negative” effects stay the same, as Slow, Freeze and Shatter, while some of the positive effects could be: Resist/Armor, Construct and Enhance

Resist would be an effect similar to Overshield, but instead of granting you a second bar of health, it would be a flat damage resistance for as long as the duration lasts or as long as you’re fulfilling the conditions that trigger it. It would be cool if resist was shown as a sort of Stasis Armor or layer of crystals protecting you.

Construct refers to how Stasis guardians can create things. Warlocks can deploy a turret. Titans can create the diamond lance. And obviously, creating stasis crystals. Hunters don’t have such a construct ability as far as I know, so it could be cool to see one incorporated.

Enhance would be the “self-buff” part of stasis. We’d see recharge in boosting your cooldowns, boosting your weapon stats/damage, or boosting your stats. I imagine different fragments or conditions would trigger different forms of Enhance. Maybe it would displayed as “Enhanced: Ability Recharge”, or “Enhance: Weapon”.

Those are my ideas, let me know what you think!

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DefiantMarsOPArchitect in Training•

I gave this topic a lot more thought after I posted this and after listening to the DCP interview with Kevin Yanes at Bungie, I think the remaining Stasis keywords probably simpler than I originally thought.

We're probably looking at:

  • Slow
  • Freeze
  • Shatter
  • Stasis Crystal
  • Stasis Shard
  • Stasis Overshield

In the aforementioned interview, Kevin talked about how over time, Overshields would become the domain of Void and Stasis. And seeing as Stasis doesn't currently have a defensive mechanic, that would certainly fill the niche. I haven't stared at a character with Rime Overshields so I don't know if there is a crystalline armor visual effect there or not, but what you're describing IS the rationale behind Stasis getting Overshields. So you're definitely in the right headspace.

The Resistance from Whisper of Chains then would just become an extra bit of unkeyworded defense that Stasis subclasses can access on the side.

The "Hakke Breach Armaments" Origin Trait sort of alludes to what you're talking about with the "Constructs" since it is able to hit Stasis Crystals and turrets (including Bleak Watcher) harder. But I don't think Construct would work as a keyword since there is not "shared behavior" if that makes sense.

If I recall, Bungie has also made statements to the effect of them wanting to spread out what elements get what kind of damage boosts. So I think they're not going to give Stasis more keyworded ways to increase outgoing damage since Stasis already has the Freeze scalar and Shatter damage. It's also kind of out of character for Stasis which focuses on crowd control over damage. Stasis Shards sort of fill the energy refund niche, so I could definitely see them doing more with those.

While I don't think those ideas might not be the best fit for Stasis, I do like them and I believe they'd very viable ideas for future Darkness subclasses.

1
VDRawr•

Two more potential effects for Solar are Highlight as a negative, and Flight as a positive.

Highlights is pretty straightforward, and it could work as the basic primer keyword on top of revealing enemies.

Flight would have to be adjusted for each class, since they all have different jump mechanics, but I'm sure Bungie can make it work if they try. And if they're okay with making Bottom Tree Voidwalker a keyword, I don't see why Top Tree Dawn can't become one too.

4
DefiantMarsOPArchitect in Training•

There are two reasons I didn't consider Flight for this list. The first is because I fail to see how would mechanically work on Hunters. Heat Rises extends Glide time and improves its performance. It could theoretically work with Lift, but I fail to grok how it would work with Double/Triple Jump. Second is the balancing concerns for PvP. We just came off some surprisingly reasonable nerfs, but with how effective Sky Dawnblade is, I don't see then wanting to open aerial combat like that.

However, I do think Highlight would have a good amount of ground to stand on. There would probably need to be other secondary effects that the classes can get against highlighted enemies or killing highlighted enemies, kind of like slow and weaken.

3
VDRawr•

The easiest thing to do for hunter flight would be to make it give the same jump effect Stompees give, then make Stompees give flight. It's not the most creative thing in the world, and having an exotic that just grants you that keyword permanently might be limiting in what else Hunters can get that synergize with it, but, well, Warlocks have nothing that Shatters. It wouldn't be that weird for one class to miss out on one keyword action.

I really like the idea of Highlight for Titans and Hunters. Titans are supposed to be master tacticians and all that, not just punch-happy crayon-eating juggernauts. Knowing where enemies are would help a lot with that. Hunters have the whole scout theme going on. Maybe Titans could have more access to Highlight, while Hunters would have less of it, but would share them with their team? Could be neat.

5
DefiantMarsOPArchitect in Training•

I don't know if they'd want to go that route with Flight since the behavior would be different for each class, which sort of defeats the purpose of making it a shared mechanic. This is all just speculative anyway, so we'll just have to see what conclusion they come to.

Titans are indeed supposed to be tacticians thematically. They occupy the classical RPG Fighter range of tropes in contrast to the Mage and Roguish archetypes embodied by Warlock and Hunters respectively. Titans are not above brute forcing their way to a solution. They are immensely stubborn and direct... but they're not stupid. That is why I like the Code of the Commander and Code of the Siegebreaker when I'm on my Titan alt. I feel like a space marine; weaving gunplay and abilities together in a very satisfying way.

I think each class is likely to focus on one buff and debuff. So since Sunbreakers are the origin on the Sunspot, I think that will probably be their focus and while Burn and Highlight would probably be secondary effects. Behemoth is (supposedly) focused on Crystals and Shattering but still has access to Slow and Freeze, so I would assume that Sol Invictus would be amended to include killing a burning or highlighted enemy to spawn a sunspot. In any case, I'd probably expect them to put the Highlight on Hammer Strike?

Which would probably push Hunters towards having the Highlight focus. So in very rough terms, I think the classes would end up something like this:

  • Gunslinger: Highlight + Temper
  • Sunbreaker: Sunspots + Heal or Empower
  • Dawnblade: Burn + Heal or Empower

Of course, they'd probably dabble in the other effects, like Hunters have a conditional way to heal or making Sunspots on precision kills with a small cooldown.

I'm becoming increasingly sold on this Highlight idea actually. I think I'll edit that into the post.

1
Palidane7•

I'm three weeks late, but I wanted to say you put a lot of work into this post, and it deserved more traction than it got. The prospect of Solar 3.0 has me more excited for Destiny's future than I have been in years. As a bottom-tree Gunslinger, we've been doing the same thing with the same exotic since D1. This could shake things up.

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DefiantMarsOPArchitect in Training•

Thanks, I really wanted to hear people's thoughts. So it is a bit of a shame there wasn't more discussion. I might make a new post in the next couple months with some revisions and discussing potential weapon perks that could be used to plug into the new keywords.

Gunslingers are definitely an interesting case for the Solar 3.0. I think for the most part Dawnblades and Sunbreakers have pretty obvious directions for the main parts of their kit. I think most of the changes will be in resolving how the perks from different trees will interact with a few new toys here and there.

I think opening up Gunslinger to a smattering of effects from the other Solar subclasses should create some interesting new ways for it to play. So I'm very curious to what Solar keywords make the cut.

2
apedoesnotkillape•

I really wanna way to be able to be a punchy boy hunter, it's cumbersome to swap from tractor to found verdict [12 punch] for my liars handshake. Also this works pretty well vs the primevil

2
DefiantMarsOPArchitect in Training•

I definitely think melee builds still need more help if they're going to see use in more difficult content. That's part of the reason why I hope that the melee boost becomes a keyword, so they can support it more readily. Giving Arc its own defensive mechanic to help making the engagement safer would also help. As would a projectile attack for Arcstriders.

1
apedoesnotkillape•

Agreed, it feels better than it ever has but I'm still skeptical. Gonna bring it into devils lair gm to start and see how it does. The duration of the super feels incredible now though

2