Analysing FSN #5: Illya!!! An Overview

Discussion

The exclamation marks are because I’m excited to write about her. Saber’s not bad (<- severe understatement), and I like Rin more than I remember in Fate, but Illya is easily best girl. Her scenes are the highlights of the reread for me so far, and I thought it was about time to do an overview of how she’s characterized in them.

I did start on the last post before this one, but in typical fashion, Archer was a bitch to write about, so I ended up finishing them at about the same time, which means I can double-post today. Don’t get used to it.

The main character trait really emphasized about Illya is her ‘innocence’. But what does that mean, exactly? Well, for example, she doesn’t really understand the concept of lying. She just assumes that people will be honest if they agree to something.

Which is weird, because she clearly understands deception, seeing as how she pretends to leave the castle in order to lure in Rin and Saber. But for her, I think that’s more like a prank than anything.

Speaking of things that are weird – you don’t usually call people innocent when they are totally okay with murder. Even compared to pieces of shit like Shinji, she does some really nasty stuff in the bad ends. So on the one hand, she’s a typical magus, totally unbounded by human notions of morality. On the other hand, it’s not like she would do any of that stuff during the day. That’s against the rules, Shirou, don’t be silly.

Shirou’s first hypothesis is basically that she doesn’t know what she’s doing. If he just explains to her why killing people is bad, maybe she’ll change her mind. Then she kills Shinji, and threatens to kill Rin and Saber, and he’s like oh. Oh, shit. She basically has no sense of morality to begin with.

Now, there’s a temptation to talk about Illya as though she has two personalities – one is the good, childlike one, and the other is the evil, adult one. There’s an obvious shift in the way she acts when she’s fighting as a Master and just playing around with Shirou. But it’s only in how she acts. Her fundamental motives and beliefs don’t change at all. Like, look at how easily she says something outrageous while eating lunch with Saber. They’re both the same picture.

You know how mankind’s original sin in the Bible is eating the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Well, Illya clearly didn’t get the memo on that one. It kind of makes sense, symbolically speaking, that she’s a homunculus, an artificial human. She’s just built different, I guess.

Another prominent way she’s depicted as is possessive. Look at her room in the Einzbern Castle – it’s filled with dolls, and there’s a pretty strong implication that Shirou, tied up in a chair, is just another one of them to her. Her feelings for Shirou are characterized by her wanting him – and if she can’t have him, nobody can. Same sort of way a child might treat their toys, right?

It’s a lot scarier when you’re doing it with a person, but Illya hasn’t really learnt the difference between a person and a toy yet. Simply put, that’s what innocence means – a lack of understanding. Illya knows a lot about magic, and how to fight in a Grail War, but when it comes to engaging with, and relating to, other people, she has a way to go.

This might make her sound like a psychopath, but in reality, she’s just a child. She already shows signs of improving just by interacting with Saber in a safe, loving environment, which is most definitely not what she grew up in. Like, no offense to Berserker, but the only person in her life who cared about her was a giant monster that can’t even talk, summoned specifically for the purpose of murdering people.

So, conclusion number one: Illya is precious and needs protecting.

Conclusion number two: Prisma Illya is just a totally different character, right? They don’t share a single point of similarity in either their personalities, or roles in the story. I get that it’s totally possible Illya might turn out like that under better circumstances, and I don’t blame Hiroyama for using her for his manga, but the fact that we have to go to an alternate reality to see Illya living a happy life is kind of tragic. Like, don’t even get me started on the people who unironically think that Fate/Kaleid is supposed to be a substitute for an actual Illya route, are you fucking kidding me?

Ahem.

Next time I’ll be talking about Saber and Shirou again, I assume (it’s almost like they’re the main characters, or something). This post from u/Reymon271 really got me hyped up for the bridge scene.

Posted Sep 22, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

409
ShockAndAwen•

Which is weird, because she clearly understands deception, seeing as how she pretends to leave the castle in order to lure in Rin and Saber. But for her, I think that’s more like a prank than anything

She didn't promise anything there did she? Is not that she is always honest, is that promises mean more to her, and is not really that she thinks people can't break their promises, is that she has high hopes that is not the case, like not so healthy levels of high hopes, and if her trust is betrayed she has a similar amount of backlash. This is related to Kiritsugu's promise I'm sure, is more that she does want to believe, desperately

Well, Illya clearly didn’t get the memo on that one. It kind of makes sense, symbolically speaking, that she’s a homunculus, an artificial human. She’s just built different, I guess

Is not her built is her environment being something like that, homunculus devoid of true understanfing of human nature. Buut she was not always like this, she lived with Kiritsugu for 8 years, most of her humanity for lack of a better word comes from there, but at the same time, well she was just 8 years old, her emotional development is stunted not only her physical one, and is kind of a mess, because she got too much development in some areas and not others, I mean, she is a walking contradiction (not so rare in FSN but she is one of the extreme ones) from birth the child of a human and a homunculus, and someone that had human emotions and human everything but being "raised" just as the other homunclus just as a tool. Add abandonment issues. I don't think that she is just a child, HF sheds light on that, is exactly she is stunted but still matured in those 10 years, just in a weird way

Like, no offense to Berserker, but the only person in her life who cared about her was a giant monster that can’t even talk, summoned specifically for the purpose of murdering people

He at least made hher able to trust others and be open again, but he is still the symbol of everything wrong with her life, so a burden is lifted if he dies, wich is really tragic actually, because obviously he really cares for her. Acht would not make it out alive if he was other class

Prisma Illya is just a totally different character, right? They don’t share a single point of similarity in either their personalities

Take Zero Illya and make her never lose her parents you get Prisma Illya. Also her Emiyaness is not restricted to prisma Illya

8
typellOPwords words words•

Is not that she is always honest, is that promises mean more to her, and is not really that she thinks people can't break their promises, is that she has high hopes that is not the case, like not so healthy levels of high hopes, and if her trust is betrayed she has a similar amount of backlash. This is related to Kiritsugu's promise I'm sure, is more that she does want to believe, desperately

Good point! I like this interpretation.

I don't think that she is just a child, HF sheds light on that, is exactly she is stunted but still matured in those 10 years, just in a weird way

Yep. Will have to talk about that more when I get to HF! As of Fate she's presented much more as a child - there are still flashes of adult understanding, but the fact that she's actually a lot older than she looks is hidden.

he is still the symbol of everything wrong with her life, so a burden is lifted if he dies, wich is really tragic actually, because obviously he really cares for her. Acht would not make it out alive if he was other class

God, Archer Herc just obliterating the Einzberns and rescuing Illya would be so beautiful. I wonder if they'd still end up fighting in the Grail War?

Take Zero Illya and make her never lose her parents you get Prisma Illya.

That is true, but it feels really bad that we never get to see FSN Illya being saved.

6
ShockAndAwen•

That is true, but it feels really bad that we never get to see FSN Illya being saved

Only UBW is a really bad end imo, but we were so close, everything would be different if she was Takeuchi's waifu

Will have to talk about that more when I get to HF!

The winter forest has some interesting things about her that often get overlooked too

3
TF_FluffSwatchSella Is Underappreciated•

Now, now. Nobody is saying Prisma Ilya is a replacement for an Ilya route...

They're saying Miyu is

5
typellOPwords words words•

I actually like Miyu a lot as an original character. But yeah, Prillya is just a different series.

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TF_FluffSwatchSella Is Underappreciated•

I just see it as: what an Ilya route would have looked like is sorta covered within different aspects of Prilya. As much as people would want a real one, the major themes and events are more or less in there.

1
ShockAndAwen•

Nasu: sweating nervously

1
SnooCupcakes5779•

While I like most things about illya, the fact that story is treats her as shiros big sis, despite shiro arguably taking the role of the older sibling, as well as her feelings toward him Kinda irks me. The tope of a person with the personality and appearance of child yet technically older then 18 so legal is just bad in so many ways, and it is definitely present in Fsn. It results in a stain on what could have been a perfectly good character. It does not help that the prysma illya anime learned heavily into the loli bait.

Sorry if none of that made sense. Tdlr; I like illya as a character, just not the loli bait that surrounds her.

Also I doubt Ilya would have been able hold a route on her own, but that’s just me.

2
typellOPwords words words•

I definitely understand your perspective.

I think the fact that Illya can be both big sister and little sister is an interesting part of her relationship with Shirou. The story does clearly portray Shirou as taking the role of the older sibling, but then it reveals that Illya is actually older, and it's like, oh, family roles like that depend on how people treat each other - even if you're not related by blood someone can still be part of your family. But I'll get to that when I get to HF.

But then there's the problem, like you said, of the 'legal loli' trope having a kinda bad history. And 'we're not actually related by blood' plays into this space as well. And even though it's not developed much in the story, there's Illya's feelings for Shirou.

So all taken together it's pretty obvious that this was all setup left over from when Nasu was planning an Illya route, and it would have been used as a justification for why it's actually okay for Shirou to have sex with her.

But - we never got the payoff for that, and now this is an all ages franchise, so in my imagination the Illya route is just a pure sibling relationship :)

Also I doubt Ilya would have been able hold a route on her own

Well that's a hard disagree from me. Like, she got a decent chunk of Sakura's without even trying.

3