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r/halifax•
nutt_shell

Access NS Help - Taking away a license from Elderly

Hey all, will try and keep this short.

My father has dementia.

My sister and I have spent the better part of the last three months trying to get my fathers license revoked and we have gotten nowhere. It has been 3 months since the doctor acknowledged he would do it and I have resorted to this subreddit for tactics on how to get this done.

We have power of attorney to handle his affairs. We have pleaded multiple times for his doctor, the geriatrics doctor and Access NS to revoke his license but nothing gets done. It has already been acknowledged by his physician that this should be done but every time we follow up and check Access NS says they have not received anything. Then the doctors office says they will follow up and then we are back at square one. Rinse and repeat.

Up until now we have had a relatively good experience with the medical and support systems but this portion has been a disaster and has by far the largest risk factors. Blood will be on our hands when he runs someone or their child over as he won't even remember it happened. He refuses to not drive unless he receives a paper stating his license has been revoked which is fair. We can not just take his car away as it previously caused an episode we do not want to trek over again. On top of that we can not just disconnect the battery as he will call CAA to come and fix it.

Anyone here experience a struggle like this? It seems to me it is the simplest bridge we should have to cross in this fiasco but obviously having to type this out proves otherwise. We are at a loss and it has brought my sister to near mental collapse. We are getting to the point of giving up on it but all I can think of is someone's kid never coming home from a bike ride and me living with the fact that I didn't do enough.

Thanks in advance

Posted Oct 19, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

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hfx_redditor•

Have you tried calling his insurance company and having them revoke his insurance for not being medically fit?

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nutt_shellOP•

Have you tried calling his insurance company and having them revoke his insurance for not being medically fit?

Damn man, nope! Might work.

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BakeThis•

I'm thinking if he won't stop driving now, will lack of insurance even stop him? Seems like just asking for him to get fined or put in jail which isn't ideal.

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nutt_shellOP•

He’s actually ok with it if he gets the official letter.

If he’s legally not allowed he won’t. When he was suspended in the spring after his accident he didn’t touch his car at all.

But when the suspension from the doctor was no longer in effect he went back to it and has said he won’t drive if he gets a letter.

He doesn’t drive every day so maybe I’m a bit dramatic. But it would just be nice to get it formally done.

Such a weird thing. Didn’t see this being the tough part lol

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chemicologist•

This is probably a dumb/unethical idea, but perhaps you could forge the letter?

EDIT: I see this has already been suggested. Should’ve read further.

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DartmouthBlackCat•

This can work.. my aunt did this with her father and it worked. The insurance called him and told him he was uninsurable

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hfxlfcBedford West 🇨🇦•

I think that would be bad idea in my opinion, it better to have insurance on the car then no insurance, what if he took the car out for a drive and then hit someone without insurance, he could end up in jail or with a massive fine.

If OP has power attorney she could just disconnect and remove the battery on it, take away the keys from him and sell the vehicle.

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nutt_shellOP•

He’s not had the stance of “I’m driving forever fuck everyone they can’t tell me not to”.

His stance is that he will stop driving when he has a letter stating he can’t.

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zcewaunt•

This sounds bad but.... If it were my dad and the follow-up with the doctor wasn't working, I'd make the most legit letter I could, including an official looking letterhead, mail it to him, and convince him it's real.

After he opens it, "Well, that's it Pop. You had a good run and it's time to hang up your keys". Then help him sell his car.

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nutt_shellOP•

Lol does not sound bad. I came here to spitball some ideas and all are welcome.

I appreciate the input. It’s definitely on the list of options.

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rigleymonkeymanDartmouth•

This is borderline crazy but I love it and it could definitely work/keep other drivers and Dad safe!

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NovaEast•

The issue with that is, can he get worse, can he forget, and simply go for a drive one day. Maybe not now, but in the future. Mine went to the liquor store at 6am, a year after not driving. Found my mother's keys.

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nutt_shellOP•

We will be selling the car when it’s official. He’s agreed to that. The sooner it happens the lesser the impact. The further we go the more difficult it will be.

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hfx_redditor•

What's to stop him if his license is revoked? He would still not have insurance if his license is revoked.

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seanhfx•

Been there done that, luckily we had a great and understanding doctor for my father in law at the time. Personally, I would prepare a letter and send it to the DR, Doctors NS and Access NS from you in your POA capacity and basically tell them that the DR continues to refuse to follow up and confirm that access NS has rec'd the proper paperwork to cancel the drivers license.

I suppose you could cancel it yourself with the POA, take his license and sell his car. Seems cruel, we kind of did this as I don't know if the DR actually wrote Access NS, we just took charge and coordinated everything. In our case, this was shortly after a very minor accident with nobody else was involved, where the RCMP mentioned he seemed confused. Nobody wants to take away this independence, but at the time, this was the trigger for us to take charge, I couldn't imagine if he and/or someone else got hurt or killed because of him driving.

In our case afterwards, we took him everywhere and made sure he saw his friends, attended events, groceries, dr appts, etc.... He did get smart and started taking the bus which scared the shit out of us, but to be honest he was very well known in Dartmouth and had a heart of gold.

Good luck.

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nutt_shellOP•

Thanks for the input.

I’m happy I posted lots of ideas and experiences which is what I was hoping for.

This is our first rodeo with this shit so it’s a learning experience.

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nutt_shellOP•

Haha. My old man is an interesting fella. Healthiest grossly unhealthy person you’d meet. Ate like shit his whole life and still smokes like a chimney.

Medical miracle honestly and other than his mental state and a stint in the heart he’s pretty baseline for someone his age. It’s remarkable. I’d hazard to say he’d pass honestly.

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nutt_shellOP•

Unfortunately he didn’t make all the best choices. My in laws and mother will be set up that way.

Financially we don’t have many options for dad. We can support him financially for the most part but we can’t afford a private care home so he will have to go on supported by the province.

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DartmouthBlackCat•

Ive been through the process of "re-testing", Ill let you know it was a horrible one. We had this one when my grandfathers heath was deteriorating and the family though it was a good idea to give him some autonomy in the situation: if he passed he could keep his license.

The test was cut short because he failed (obvious) but that interaction was incredibly stressful which led to screaming matches with him against his children, something that had never happened before. The whole situation really wrecked him and looking back I think the family whished we had gone about it another way

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nutt_shellOP•

We’ve had my brother in law show up two times to unhook the battery and dad caught him.

I was witness to the doctor telling him he’s unable to drive. Maybe he really didn’t mean it but he’s actually fairly close to the family on the non-medical side so we tend to believe him. Maybe you’re right.

Tampering with the vehicle is going to cause way more anger and confusion than the piece of paper.

Maybe we just do it. I know people reading it probably are scratching their heads on why we wouldn’t just do it but there’s a slew of shit storm that comes with trying to pull a fast one on him.

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bleakjClayton Park•

This is a really shitty thing to ask maybe,

But if the ends justify the means...

What about a fake letter?

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nutt_shellOP•

Lol, I’m not above doing that that’s for sure.

Honestly in my 20s it would have been the first thing I thought of. Didn’t think much of it. He did however call the DMV when he got out of the hospital to confirm he was suspended for 3 months.

Betraying his trust and him figuring it out would be tough but I’ll toss it by my sister.

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bleakjClayton Park•

If he's likely to make phone calls, that's definitely going to be the hardest part.

I've got concerns I'll be doing similar for/with my parents soon.

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nutt_shellOP•

In a sense yep! I feel like I’ve dealt with it all ok. Especially since “getting used” to the intricacies.

I’m honestly a bit disappointed with the system here. Anyone that met him would probably have an inkling that driving is a bad idea. Puzzling to me why it’s such a hump here. We’ve got a lot of the boxes checked but this one is just a stalemate.

To his credit he hasn’t driven much. And me working from home I’m able to be the proxy by calling him a couple times a day to make sure he’s not thinking about it.

It’s fine for now but it’s not going to be viable for this level of effort forever from us. Best to get ahead of some stuff so the inevitable burn out doesn’t come!!

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TOliver871•

I am so sorry to hear that you're going through this.

It sounds like the GP agrees that this needs to be done. Can you make an appointment and physically bring him the forms? Chances are, it's just on his to-do list and it keeps dropping to the bottom.

We went through a similar thing with my grandfather. Just a warning: as his dementia progressed, he actually forgot that he was no longer allowed to drive. He ended up taking the vehicle (he lived with my grandmother, who was doing all of the driving), and getting lost in the woods- search and rescue luckily found him 12 hours later. So, even if he understands the paperwork right now, it doesn't mean he will forever... Keep those keys away.

Good luck. I wouldn't wish this pain and frustration on anyone.

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nutt_shellOP•

Thanks for sharing and the kind words.

Luckily he has talked about selling the vehicle “if those assholes take my license”. So hope du let he sticks to it.

I keep pumping up the idea of selling it as much as I can.

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FreyasValkyries•

I called access and asked them about an email to send a letter to about concerns over someone’s driving ability due to health reasons, I’m really sorry I can’t find or remember the address. In the email I wrote out my concerns point blank and not more than three sentences to detail how progressed the illness was. I provided the name of my family member, their address and birth date. At the end I stated how deeply concerned for their safety and that of others. I never heard back but my family member started calling everyone ranting and raving about some “bitch” who is trying to take their license and that it’s suspended until they can pass the written and driven tests. They passed the written test after much stress over it. They surprisingly passed the road test too but were told that the ultimate decision was not left to the tester and their license was suspended still until they got official notification stating otherwise. About three weeks later the family member calls everyone complaining about the same bitch now took away their license for good. It really got my family up in arms. A lot of pissed off people unable to believe someone would take away autonomy of driving like that. Their health seriously declined a few months later and then some tunes started changing. Some are still shocked and pissed off someone would do this. If I could I would do it all over again, the exact same way. There’s still bets that it was this one family friend that did it and this is likely an act I’ll take to my grave in the sense of not telling my family it was me.

Good luck op. I hope you come to a solution soon.

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nutt_shellOP•

Thanks for the input!

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Sure_its_grand•

This sounds mean but call police when he gets in the car? Kind of like reporting a driver under the influence? I second contacting insurance

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nutt_shellOP•

He’s legally allowed to drive. Access NS has stated the same. Not sure the cops have much say here unless he does something wrong.

I like the insurance idea as well. We’re trying to avoid brute forcing things but will if we have to.

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Sure_its_grand•

It’s such a hard thing to go through. My Grammie literally would park in the middle of the street before she finally agreed to stop driving.

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CMikeHuntDartmouth•

It might be worth a call to the police non-emergency number anyway. Explain to them what you've explained here. I'm sure they've gotten inquiries like this before, they should be able to offer some advice.

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keithplacer•

Do you think you could fill out this form and sign it using your Power of Attorney?

https://novascotia.ca/sns/pdf/ans-rmv-surrender-of-drivers-licence.pdf

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nutt_shellOP•

Sent to my sister who is official POA to see if we can make work!

Thanks

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spenceandcarrie•

Is there someone in the family who really needs a car? You could appeal to your Dad to gift his car to help. This worked for someone I know. Then the family left a thank you note so he could read it and be reminded of the kind gesture and where the car went.

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MMCMDL•

When I was 15, my grandfather was in his early eighties. My grandmother and my aunt were concerned about his driving after he had a small accident, so he agreed to stop driving if he could give me his car.

My mom just turned 80 and we gradually convinced her to stop driving, but it was hard. She didn't recognize that she no longer had the reflexes to drive safely.

I hope you are able to get a letter from the DMV and convince your dad to stop driving. I wouldn't fake a letter though - the last thing you need is him to stop believing you. TBH, he may have more trouble remembering/accepting he can't drive once you do get a letter

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nutt_shellOP•

We will sell the car when it’s official. He’s not being unreasonable about it at all. Just hard line in the sand, letter or gtfo

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nutt_shellOP•

Unfortunately he will need that money

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SolanGoose•

Yes. I called my ex husband and he disconnected everything under the hood except for the radio.

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nutt_shellOP•

He’s caught us twice! We’re gonna try again.

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Glum-Introduction•

A lot of recommendations of taking keys/car or doing damage so its un driveable. Just because they're family doesn't make it any less illegal. Could backfire pretty badly

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nutt_shellOP•

Appreciate the input. Not a huge concern of legality for us as we legally have decision making power over his affairs.

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hunkydorey_caDartmouth•

There is contact information on the top of this form. Typically this is common for class 1-4 licenses but if there is a medical condition that should prevent someone from driving they will invoke the Medical Advisory Committee. (note this team is very busy unless you have documentation to prove they should be revoked it may take a bit of time).

https://novascotia.ca/sns/pdf/ans-rmv-drivers-medical-examination-report.pdf

​

Search this doc for Medical Advisory Committee for more info:

https://nslegislature.ca/sites/default/files/legc/statutes/motor%20vehicle.pdf

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nutt_shellOP•

Thank you!

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passionforhealthcareHalifax•

I just wanted to say that what you’re going through is unimaginably difficult. Thank you for taking the time to seek advice. I hope things work out.

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nutt_shellOP•

I appreciate it! Things aren’t as desperate as they seem. Just this one issue.

We’re getting into a groove of care and knowing what we can do to help him stay happy. Takes some patience and adherence to weird conversations but we’re run a good lane. Just don’t want him driving!

Thank you

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