Source
r/TalesFromDF•
Datjigga

Can I have the rundown on why " You Pull You Tank" is bad?

My first post here and its not a normal post so if I break any rules please tell me.

So I've been here for a few weeks and have seen this sentiment the most when dps or healers are pulling instead of the tank and I don't think I've seen any arguments contrary to it. Now let me tell you, I'm still new to the game but can tell I have a good understanding of how the game works and is meant to be played.

However, I wish to give another perspective from a tank thats still new but competent at it.

I've had only one experience with a player that was pulling mobs even though I was pulling big in the first place. They were a Bard and the dungeon was Brayflox Longstop and I was a Paladin. Now the Bard player pulled mobs like half the time if I remember correctly, sometimes they would steer to the side while pulling the mobs and I'd have to go after them and tag them instead of hitting them while they stood still, and sometimes aoes would miss while both me and the mobs were moving because of how the game just works. Now no one died except the Bard cuz he was going to the left or right of the area instead of foward or backwards so I can tag them without going out of my way. And also I'm a console player and didn't have a keyboard at the tome to tell them "please stop that, it's really annoying"

It was a very annoying experience that I thankfully have not had again and can see why some tanks become spiteful when some one does it to them. And while I know that pulling mobs is a group effort, I feel like someone veering off and pulling instead of the group is a bad thing to do imo. Or is this just a thing that's normal in later content and I just don't know it yet?

Posted Nov 17, 2021, 12:03 PM UTC

025
LordGrapple/slap•

Eh, your title and actual question is a little different. You seem like you're comfortable or at least getting comfortable with larger pulls so I won't speak in that.

What a DPS should be doing if they're grabbing more mobs is immediately moving on top of your position or slightly past so that you can just use a simple AOE to grab aggro. If they're staying out of range, that's 100% on them for being dumb. Same goes for a healer.

Ideally, you don't want to move the stack of mobs too much so that the AOE burning can proceeds as quickly and efficiently as possible. Some classes have point blank AOEs around themselves while others have the luxury of AOE-on-target. But if one or two mobs does get on one of your party members, using your ranged ability should be enough in most cases to take back aggro.

37
DatjiggaOP•

Eh, your title and actual question is a little different.

Sorry if that was the case, my English skills in explaining things aren't the best sadly.

And yes I'm fine with doing big pulls as the tank, one time as a healer I had a tank pull entire rooms back to back, and once we had a breather at the final boss entrance, I told them to stop and let me give you a headpat for going so hard.

9
LordGrapple/slap•

You're fine, I got a feel for what you wanted answered. đź‘Ť

8
Blokeh•

I guess it really depends on how the healer/DPS do the pulling really.

If the tank is single-pulling, and a DPS or healer goes and pulls extra and then brings them back to the tank, who then lets the healer/DPS die, then that tank is a bitch and needs to re-evaluate their job choices.

Tanks are literally designed to tank large packs of enemies, and a double-pack should be minimum. Their absurd aggro gains over other jobs means maintaining aggro is easier than it has ever been, and their AoEs allow for pretty mindless pulling without any stress. There is literally zero reason that they cannot press one button to take the newly obtained mobs and keep them - other than them being god-complex little bitches.

If the tank is pulling in large packs already, and someone else runs off to aggro more, and then doesn't bring them back to the tank, then I honestly would be fine with the tank not breaking away and chasing after them. They're already pulling big, they're doing fine, but they shouldn't need to chase some knobhead around an arena as well.

There is this idea that "tanks set the pace".

That is absolute horse shit.

Healers set the pace. If they can keep the tank alive, there is literally no reason for the tank to not go fucking ham. If the healer isn't as skilled as some, then the tank should avoid big pulling.

But again, it's a situational thing.

If a single-pulling tank used this line, I would vote kick them before they finished their sentence.

If a big-pulling tank refused to chase after an idiot, I'd let it go.

Situational.

36
DatjiggaOP•

I've had I think 2 experiences with tanks that don't pull more, one of them that I asked actually started to pull more when the healer chimed in, the other didn't and the healer said they don't care, I even asked if the tank was new to tanking since it was a level 60 dungeon and they had gunbreaker, they didnt answer at all. And I was wondering through that slow experience, "Should I, the Monk, pull more here?"

2
[deleted]•

To answer your question about what's normal—for the most part, people do let the tank pull. But the norm is also to do wall pulls (as you do!), so usually there are no additional mobs for DPS to pull anyways.

The reason people don't like "you pull you tank" is because it's just a power trip, really. As long as the tank is more or less with you and you bring the mobs to them, if you pull a second early because your buffs are about to fall off or whatever it shouldn't be a big deal. Getting aggro back is as easy as one AoE through the group, which you were doing anyways. A DPS that pulls properly will be adjusting to your position, not the other way around, so there's quite literally nothing that changes for the tank.

13
bahamutblast/slap•

'You pull it you tank it' is always just going to waste everybody's time. It might be irritating for a dps to pull and then run off to the side making you chase after them, but not securing aggro and just standing there waiting for them to die instead of killing enemies is counterproductive and makes the dungeon take longer for no reason.

If this keeps happening, I would recommend sprinting before starting a pull (before any enemies are aggro'd so you have a longer sprint duration). I find most people don't sprint at all so this should give you a head start. A ranged might still pull before you can, but there's only so much you can do.

14
jcyue•

The tanks job, ideally is to do what gives the best chance of success.

Most YPYT stories aren't about scenarios like yours. If a DPS pulls a few mobs in Brayflox and is fucking off to Garlemald while you already have 8-10 mobs aggroed and the healer is hardcasting heal spells, then you aren't obligated to chase them down and grab their mobs because moving out of your healers range probably leads do you taking more damage and the healer healing less, aka lowering your success rate.

When you see YPYT mentioned here, it's most often in the context of DPS or healers getting aggro and bringing the mobs over where the tank wouldn't have to do anything different since they should be spamming AoE anyways. When the tank then chooses to deliberately not use AOE or turns off their stance, that's the garbage people refer to.

10
Bass294•

"You pull you tank" is just something from uppity tanks that think they deserve to control 3 other peoples time. I've seen it also used in context of pulling before a cutscene, and a tank or healer refusing to play out of some sense of justice for the cutscene-watching player.

8
dragonreduxYou don't pay my sub•

Your experience is different than what other people do when the whole YPYT comes up. DPS/Healer if pull or get aggro should always bring the mobs to Tank to pull it off them easier. This goes for any game not just FF. Nothing annoys a tank more than people running away and you having to waste resources running after them to save them.

Most of the posts who pull the YPYT is usually made high level players single pulling mobs. I don't mind or care if a wall to wall pull happens or not but please at least double pull, both healers and tanks have plenty of buttons to keep themselves alive and personally one of the most funniest thing as a tank is seeing how much punishment you can take.

Personally, I only find the YPYT really acceptable in like a old MMO where aggro management is harder or the punishment for wiping is much harsher, but in a game nowadays like FF where getting aggro is hitting your ranged button or using your AOE combo with tank stance on. In addition, the punishment for wiping is just respawning at the beginning or at the last boss arena. It is quite literally just try again.

7
MammtSux•

It's a little simpler than that.

Dungeons are absurdly easy content, either because of 3 expansions of leveling changes for earlier dungeons or because they were balanced to be clearable by literal bots.

FFXIV is also a game where you can and want to pull as much as you possibly can at all times, which coincides with wall to wall pulling from the moment you get out of Sastasha; there's only a handful of incredibly specific and most of all uncommon cases where you wouldn't want to do that. And by that, I'm not referring to "The healer/tank/whatever is undergeared", since that is primarily the fault of said person and the solution to that and all similar problems is to either kick or simply play better; I'm referring to "Shadowbringers release AST is not able to sustain a tank through some pulls in Holmister Switch" and such.

Therefore, since you're absolutely supposed to pull wall to wall at all times (mainsub be damned), the phrase "You pull you tank" becomes the mark of a shitter because of the implication that there is anything to be pulled in the first place.

Btw if they're pulling and pulling the mobs away that's either griefing or someone that doesn't know better, but given the above you're still supposed to pull them anyway so while you can ask them not to do that I would still advise you to be faster for the sake of your own mental well-being.

6
DatjiggaOP•

there's only a handful of incredibly specific and most of all uncommon cases where you wouldn't want to do that.

Aurum Vale is that for me, I've seen so many wipes to that one dungeon it's pretty much tradition, and as a tank I've made sure to take THAT one slow, specifically the first room.

3
ZombaeChocolate•

Yeah i just run Aurum Vale with a sprout who did really, but got full of himself.

He said pull as you want, i reply, with hot, and proceed to stick to the left side and grab smoller pack of mobs.

Healer thought thats not right, and ran ahead to pull more, i already am like, welp, thats a wipe as soon as they attack one mob and trigger like 4 packs.

We wipe, cause thats just too much in the first room, for our kit.

He did not do that again :D

Rest of the dungeon i proceeded to pull everything, that was possible between bosses, ngl it was spicey af, but it was a serotonin blast. Healer did really fine, its just that first room what slaps like its an extreme fight xD

5
Visual-Painting-212•

the first room of AV is actually really easy...

​

its unfortunate the GCBTW doesn't know the strat.

Run in hard, hug the left wall. run into the boss chamber. burn everything inside the boss chamber. be careful not to pull the boss. be happy. It's surprising how old that dungeon is and people don't know how to do it.

2
JohnnySardine•

Something I noticed is that a lot of people seem to forget ARR dungeons when talking about this topic, later on dungeons are just a corridor with 2-4 mob packs along the way, making it not only a clear situation for the tank when he should ideally be pulling to the wall, but also for situations where someone else is going ahead to grab an extra pack.

In ARR dungeons not only are kits neutered so unless everyone is really on top of things, some wall pulls are close to impossible, there are dead ends and extra packs that you might have wanted to skip anyway, making it really annoying for people to grab random shit and maybe not even bring it to you because, since this is a low level dungeon, they are also bad players that dont know what they are doing.

People here are especially quick to see things black and white, I recommend to just continue with the story and try to deal with things as you can in low level dungeons, and then you will see how things get way simpler later on, where the established need for most people to pull to the wall comes from, because its very easy and clear-cut in those dungeons.

Since you are already asking these questions you will not have any issues attitude wise, but I know from experience that this whole drama about wall to wall and you tank you pull can look deceptive from a sprout perspective.

5
NolChannel•

We need more things like ARR dungeons.

Luring mobs over bear traps to give them vuln stacks. Avoiding line of sight mobs that kill you instantly if they see you. Alternate routes guarding meaningful crafting materials or unique Blue Spells.

5
PhoenixFire312•

The weird thing about ARR dungeons though is you can actually make the hard pulls easier if DPS pull. They have almost all of the mitigation they are going to get, which at those levels is significant. For example, in Brayflox normal MNK is forced into Fist of Earth for 10% dmg reduction, and they have second wind, arm's length, and bloodbath. Combined with a stun and potentially a pot, this can actually make you tankier than a lot of sprout tanks until you run out of CDs. DRG gets to wear semi tank armor and has a similar treatment. If your group is doing an insane wall to wall, you can let a DPS tank for a bit, AoE once or twice and you'll reobtain all the aggro.

This is why I make you pull you tank tanks mald in those dungeons by pulling and tanking as melee DPS. Ranged phys can kite out mobs pretty hard as well.

4
JohnnySardine•

The thing is, those things only work if everyone knows what they are doing and is on the same page, which will never happen in duty finder. There are a lot of fun things to do in those dungeons but if all you hear as a beginner is "you need to run to the wall" then some of them become very frustrating with beginner groups.

This is more or less disconnected from the problem of tanks not wanting to take the aggro at all, but yeah.

1
MaechenTechnomancer•

So "you pull you tank" is bad because it when a tank actively refuses to tank because someone else pulls something. So I have a general rule of thumb that I am not chasing anything anyone else pulls. I will try to peel it off with ranged attacks if I can but other wise you pull something you bring it to me.

EDIT: "you pull you tank" is essentially a childish temper tantrum

4
sun8390•

It's different because the experience you had isn't one of the YPYT scenarios, and you weren't having the YPYT mindset.

Simply not taking aggro back doesn't mean it's YPYT. You gauge the situation and decide what's best for the group. In most cases, trying to chase a dps pulling but not bringing mobs to you isn't efficient or may unnecessarily wipe the group as your aggro can get inconsistent, or cooldowns get wasted with scattering mobs.

Once in Amdapor I had to let my friend die because she didn't bring the chest mimic to me when I already grouped up mobs around the mold thing. It was simply the better choice to make and that's all.

3
JinxApple•

The difference here is if a dps pulls mob and doesn't bring it to you then that's their problem. The griefing people talk about is when other party members pull extra mobs, then bring them to the tank, and the tank turns off their stance and afk or just deliberately not using aoe to grab aggro on the mob packs.

3
axe_wizard•

In FF there's really no reason why a tank should be upset if someone else pulls, it's so easy to get threat. One AOE and they're on you

If your healer is pulling more then they are confident they will keep you alive

A dps pulling with undergeared/new tank AND healer is usually frowned upon, but usually works itself out of healer asks not to pull, or party wipes the first time

2
DuckVakarian/slap•

Its extremely easy to get threat in FF, most of the time its because the dps is bringing the mobs to you for faster (potentially easier pulls depending on the dungeon and healer) pulls, the only time I find it especially annoying is when they pull a pack and then run far away from you and then just die, like why? But do be careful, there are instances where dps pull mobs without understanding the full situation, for example, 47 dungeons, new healer, but as a tank you're being respectful of the healer and pulling 2 packs instead of wall to wall, then a dps goes and pulls all the mobs and ends up killing you and the group. Most of the time, its fine, just pull it off them and get going with the pull, they're trying to help, but there are a few who are just.. not helpful.

2
lucianaryas•

The bard was acting a fool.

If your gonna pull or even if you accidentally pull take it to the tank so they can take agro from you. Simple. Them running about like a fool was their fault they died.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
FilsDeLiberte•

Press AoE button. Get aggro. it's that easy, so yes it's bad. Press your buttons.

1