Source
r/nethack•
zzandy

nethack UI is .. not the best?

Hi, i think nethack is the best game EVAR but find it difficult to get used to UI.

Typical example of how UI can be cumbersome.

  • You see a chest here
  • I want to loot it
  • Loot what? A chest that's here?
  • Yes, please.
  • No you can't, it's locked
  • OK, unlock it
  • What? There is a chest here, unlock that?
  • Yup.
  • Fine
  • So can I loot it already?
  • That chest you're standing on?
  • Yes for god's sake
  • fine
  • ...
  • O, do you want to put something in or out or both
  • %$$# Both!!!111
  • Don't need to shout, here you go.

DAE feels the same way? How do you get over it?

Posted Mar 24, 2012, 7:08 PM UTC

929
Huffers•

Try organising a military in Dwarf Fortress, then Nethack's user-interface will feel super-polished in comparison.

11
zzandyOP•

My "favorite" part in DF is the trade screen - I have 24" screen but I can only trade '*+{water buffalo ..." ... bag?

Military, I feel like after you understand what that screen does, which is not guaranteed to happen, you're OK.

3
daguito81•

except that most of the time I make the schedule and burrows and everything and then I see only 1-2 dwarfs defending the ramparts when there should be 10 of them. Also I havent even LOOKED at the whole uniform and equipment section. I just create squad, metal armor, hope for the best and send 50 dwarfs to kill a Titan

1
ron3090•

And then it turns out most of them are naked Wrestlers.

1
daguito81•

Yeah... However I think I saw one of them shoot a bolt once... I was so excited!!!

1
Oni_Kami•

I agree it is frustrating, however it is like that for a reason. First of all, it's part of the whole "the developers thought of everything" thing. Also, it's for your own safety, if it auto choose the chest under you, but you wanted the door in front of you, and the chest was trapped, and there was an archon behind the door, you're in trouble. So although it is burdensome, it's designed that way for a reason, and although it is frustrating, I'd rather it not change.

5
nakedapedude20+ year veteran.•

Yeah the chest thing is a bit of a pain, it would probably be better if, when you tried to loot a locked chest, you are asked you if you want to unlock it and when the answer is yes items in your inventory with which you could unlock it are listed to choose from.

4
rexxfiend•

Yes. Inventory management via sacks is especially cumbersome. It gets easier once you learn the sequence and do it often enough that it's routine. It helps that nethack is not a fast-paced game, do these little sequences are just part of the flow.

3
dizzy_lizzyroles left: Hea, Pri•
aboX @ DX @ ,@ abi?!

...sometimes I think it would be funny to see what all the keyboard input for a game of nethack looks like.

6
noahboddy•

I like to imagine that someone, somewhere, has played a game of nethack whose keyboard input was the complete text of Hamlet.

3
zzandyOP•

So how long does it take to get in the nethack routine thing?

1
rexxfiend•

I dunno, a couple of months maybe. It depends how often you play really.

1
zzandyOP•

OK, maybe more for me, but I'll ascend eventually.

1
rexxfiend•

That might take a bit longer.

5
Lz_erk•

#adjust is the key.

aq>ylyoa -- unlock chest, take goodies

azia -- put loot into bag of holding...

The problem for me is when the interface lets me do unreasonably dumb things due to typos or informational voids, like equipping known cursed gear, trying to yank my archon's hand off with a bullwhip [actually, everything pet-related], polymorphing in the wrong direction and hitting my stash...

What it really needs is an undo button for nonthreatening actions.

1
Fistocracy•

I never did. After all the time I wasted learning Dorf Fortress (which has controls that bear only a passing resemblance to more traditional roguelikes), I took one look at Nethack and installed the Vulture's Eye graphical interface instead of learning a whole new pointlessly complicated system from scratch.

1
zzandyOP•

Having to think of it, DF is probably not very much better in terms of control, but I have learned it somehow. Now I bet some noob standing by couln't tell me coding from playing dwarf fotress.

1
wetpaste•

I think the aim in a lot of later roguelikes was to improve on this and boil some of the quirks and needless difficulties of nethack away and leave the core decision making aspects. I think dcss and brogue are good examples of how the gameplay can be streamlined. Nethack has built up over many many years and features have been added all over the place, it used to be the only game in town that really had all of this stuff. Now there is some competition and making control quicker and more to the point while still keeping the game interesting is more prevalent in roguelikes.

3
deltopiahas made some poor decisions•

I've read some discussion of an alternate UI where, instead of focusing on verbs (loot, unlock, wield, eat) it focuses on direct objects. In this instance, you'd somehow select the chest, and a list of options for ways to interact would pop up.

  • Chest
  • Would you like to (U)nlock, (S)earch for traps, (L)oot, (D)eposit, (K)ick, (P)ick up, or (E)at it?
  • Loot it, please.
  • Which item will you retrieve?
  • (A) 100 gp
  • (B) The Amulet of Yendor
  • (C) a partly eaten cockatrice corpse

This would mean a lot of actions would start with the inventory button, making your inventory a vital part of the basic UI... which would probably prevent a lot of YASDs.

3
chonglibloodsport•

The main objection I have to this is that you can no longer have objects with non-obvious uses. This runs counter to the spirit of nethack, which is all about finding hidden and strange uses for items (engraving with a towel, wielding a cream pie, applying a potion of oil, dipping a unicorn horn). It also introduces a ton of redundancy if you are to retain all functionality (i.e. wield and throw being listed for every single item).

7
deltopiahas made some poor decisions•

True story... it turns an essay question into multiple choice.

8
chonglibloodsport•

Wow, that's a brilliant analogy. Very succinct.

1
zzandyOP•

Loot it, but the chest is locked.

I'd rather nethack would remember I was going to loot that particular chest and don't force me to chose it again for forcing and then again for looting.

1
bhaakUnNetHack and Junethack Maintainer•

In UnNetHack and AceHack (and IIRC also now on NAO) you get a menu with if you open the inventory and select the inventory letter.

But this only helps for items that are already in your possession. For items on the ground like chests that UI improvement doesn't help.

1
Ykstort•

but you can hit 'a,' to 'apply $thingonfloor' i.e. a chest or a sack in AceHack, which is a little less cumbersome than #loot, loot what? etc

1
5353•

You forgot to untrap it first.

3
[deleted]•

tl;dr

-5
zzandyOP•

nethack UI sucks

1
[deleted]•

Agreed.

-2