Credit to u/kitties-plus-titties (IRA Discussion)
Posted Dec 9, 2021, 8:45 AM UTC
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I have no opinion or insight into the posted information, I'm too poor to have any of that shit lmao 🥲, but I'll confirm that just interacting with the kitty titty will get you downvotes.
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Kitty answer a post about his comment by comment a link of post about the same comment ?
Kitty-ception
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🐈⬛
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Shills are pushing the narrative that ally isn’t safe HARD.
Actually I am the only person (I'm aware of) pushing this.
I welcome your challenge to debate this.
But I'd rather not debate the same thing over and over across different threads / posts that's already been addressed in my links.
I'd rather have a debate with moderators watching and put an end to this.
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Yes because I'm trying to funnel all of these topics in different posts into one centralized location that way there's no confusion happening in other threads that can get confused or mixed up.
Hence me saying previously about not wanting to discuss the same things over and over. It gets exhausting typing the same thing again and again in different posts.
Instead if I can do it once in a single location that helps immensely.
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I called ComputerShare. I asked whether custodial IRA shares are DRSed. The agent told me it is beneficial ownership and not removed from DTC.
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I sent an inquiry to CS. Hopefully they respond and clarify.
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If someone could show us a proof by "DRS-ing" 1 share with ALLY and asking Computershare if that share is under Ally's/Apex's name or yours in Computershare's ledger, then post proof
That'd be great
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I have an IRA xxx that went fidelity > Ally > Apex custodial drs. They are in computershare right now in my account.
I'm calling into computershare his morning to ask them questions about control and what custodial means.
Any questions you'd like me to ask let me know.
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YES PLEASE! If you have any way to provide evidence of the conversation, or any email correspondence, that'd be the nail in the coffin
That's the only question I have, regarding whether those shares are held in your name, registered under your name, or registered under Ally's/Apex's name but held for you as your custodian (this would be the same as being under street name)
But yes, do clarify on the exact definition and powers (perhaps regards to selling, dividends and etc.) that come with those terms
Thank you for your service 🦧
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I contacted Computershare and asked these questions:
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For clarity, these are direct registered shares in my name correct? -
In the case of a dividend being issued to custodial shares the dividend would be paid out through you to me, correct? -
As custodian does Apex have any ability to sell these shares, or am I the sole individual that can issue a sell request?
I got the following answer:
Aldrin C.: The shares are are directly registered to Computershare under an IRA registration so it means that this is not directly into your name. If the company will pay dividends, it will be sent to the address on records. All transaction must be done in writing with the signature of the authorized individual from APEX with medallion stamp as they are the listed custodian in this account.
My conclusion at this point is this is a POOR choice for registering IRA shares and I regret doing it this way. I'll make a post of it for clarity.
I have a rollover IRA I am going to direct transfer to my normal Computershare account.
Not financial advice.
EDIT:
Aldrin C.: You’re welcome. Is there anything else for today?
You: If I wanted to move these shares out of custodial status and into my name directly, that would be a conversation with Apex or with Computershare?
Aldrin C.: To reregister the account, APEX needs to complete a Computershare transfer request form.
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Damn, I'm working with Ally right now. Personally I'm not willing to take the tax hit until I have more confidence in the timing of MOASS. I never expected to be here almost a year later at a loss.
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I could author that also.
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This. This is the smoking gun I was looking for! Thank you once again for getting to the bottom of it! I'd really appreciate it if you could make a post about it to share what you've learnt with the rest of the apes
Below are my thoughts on Aldrin C's replies in brackets
Aldrin C.: The shares are are directly registered to Computershare under an IRA registration so it means that this is not directly into your name. (so not registered in my name, still under street name, they can do whatever the f they want without my knowledge. I have no idea what illegal crap they can pull to use my shares)
If the company will pay dividends, it will be sent to the address on records. All transaction must be done in writing with the signature of the authorized individual from APEX with medallion stamp as they are the listed custodian in this account. (what do 'transactions' cover? Also, it sounds like as long as the authorized individual from APEX says yes, anything can be done to my shares? I have no control over this)
Aldrin C.: You’re welcome. Is there anything else for today?
You: If I wanted to move these shares out of custodial status and into my name directly, that would be a conversation with Apex or with Computershare?
Aldrin C.: To reregister the account, APEX needs to complete a Computershare transfer request form. (Oh fuck, this sounds bad, can't they just refuse to complete it? Citing technical error, manpower issues all kinds of bullshit excuses, holy crap)
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The shares are are directly registered to Computershare under an IRA registration so it means that this is not directly into your name
Could you verify that they are still taken away from DTC?
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Roger that, I'll look to provide any evidence I can.
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your persistence has paid off.
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Seems like it did
Shares being held by a custodian (/r/Superstonk/comments/rcxt3p/ira_drs_information_regarding_custodial) falls under BENEFICIALLY OWNED SHARES in the image of ComputerShare's structure in the below DD
r/Superstonk/comments/q0mu9l/computershare_cs_now_has_a_diagram_that_shows/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
That means the shares are not removed from DTCC as Apex is a DTCC participant and they can potentially still lend your shares
Discussion on topic: r/Superstonk/comments/rcdkdo/comment/hnua8qp/
If necessary, do your own checks with ComputerShare
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Fingers crossed
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It does indeed create a taxable event and rhe GME moass will be a huge wealth transfer. But this is bad advice as you're assuming it'll come around before the Tax on the IRA sale is due! This still could be a year away (I don't think it is) and if it is there'll be a lot of people needing to sell shares to cover that bill all at roughly the same time creating downward pressure and removing fuel from the rocket! Personally I would leave my IRA and just keep adding as normal shares. Not financial advice blah blah.....
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There is a middle ground where you do it knowing that you will be able to cover the tax bill. If that's the case then do it. If not then don't. Just like investing, everybody's situation is different.
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Besides…if the rocketship doesn’t launch before January, THEN you can move IRA shares and have 16 months before the tax bill is due.
While I expect lots of shifty actions from SHF and SMM, I doubt they will be able to keep everything going another year if everyone begins to also DRS their IRAs in January.
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That's my point. That's what I'm saying.
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Problem is, there won’t be a moass if people don’t actually drs their large holdings.
I’d rather 80% drs, help in moass and pay tax than have 100% in IRA but no moass.
This happens with us first. Whisky costs money.
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I have a decent amount of shares in a cash account Simple IRA. What is the problem with this? ??? 💎👋🦍🚀🌖
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Basically since all these wallstreet jerks are playing on the same team, nothing precludes them from selling our shares out from under us after the price starts to rise during MOASS because they can claim that the shares were under their management.
DRS leaves the decision to sell in our hands vs wall streets.
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Just gonna plug this PSA here
Shares being held by a custodian (/r/Superstonk/comments/rcxt3p/ira_drs_information_regarding_custodial) falls under BENEFICIALLY OWNED SHARES in the image of ComputerShare's structure in the below DD
r/Superstonk/comments/q0mu9l/computershare_cs_now_has_a_diagram_that_shows/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
That means the shares are not removed from DTCC as Apex is a DTCC participant and they can potentially still lend your shares
Discussion on topic: r/Superstonk/comments/rcdkdo/comment/hnua8qp/
If necessary, do your own checks with ComputerShare
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I changed my Roth to standard brokerage account then they travelled TDA > Fidelity > ComputerShare.
IRA is just another term for free gambling money to them anyway.
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Interesting theory. Should be explored for sure
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I never thought about that but honestly that makes a lot of sense. It sucks for people who have to take the tax hit as it is a gamble if the bet will pay off before the penalty is due.
I would suggest any ape who is considering this to wait until after Jan 1st so they don't have to worry about the tax hit until 2023 but I can't remember what I ate for breakfast and I'm certainly no financial advisor.
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Good to know
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What?
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Right?
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For ppl with a Roth IRA, keep in mind that this takes away the tax advantage which can be quite substantial compared to the penalty
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Aren't Roth IRA's non-retirement accounts?
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No it’s a retirement account where you don’t have to pay taxes on gains because the money you put into it was already taxed.
So if I put $1000 into my Roth from my bank account ( it’s already been taxed at this point) then buy 5 shares of GME and GME goes to millions of dollars, I don’t have to pay ANY taxes on those Gains once I am 59 1/2 years old.
So taking my share shares out of my Roth is a TERRIBLE idea imo.
For other IRAs, it’s not as big of deal, but it does mean that I can’t decide which year I pay taxes on my gains, so personally I don’t think that it is worth it for my other IRA either.
Outside of that, the penalty isn’t terrible, but for the reasons I described above, people need to really understand what it means to pull their shares out of their IRA. It may only be a penalty in the thousands now, but you’re talking potentially millions of dollars in lost income from the downwind tax implications.
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Don't really think think that's how taxes work (thousands now millions later).
The wealth that you will gain from GME is going to far exceed any tax implications.
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If I pull out 10 shares from my Roth IRA now I’ll pay like $100 for a penalty of early distribution. These shares would no longer be in my Roth IRA.
If tomorrow GME goes to 100 million per share, then, I sell them all and I make 1 billion dollars. When I file my taxes I’ll be paying like 50% in capital gains taxes, so I net 500 million.
If I keep these in my Roth IRA and sell them at 100 million per share, I make 1 billion dollars. Assuming I keep that money jn there until I am 59.5 years old, I will pay zero taxes.
That is a 500 millions dollar difference.
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IRA stands for Individual Retirement Account
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Yeah, that was a dumb comment on my part.
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"we just gotta start it" sounds pretty unsettling if we're being honest
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Why?
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Because hasty decisions en masse can lead us to ruin.
Note I think you are spot on, but the phrasing of just do it is worrisome
Edit: coming from a guy that apex registered his shares and wished he'd just taken them out of IRA and DRS'd them and took the tax hit in March
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Upvoting for visibility.
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Yeah same conclusion as you. I'm going to leave the ~100ish. In this shitty apex drs. And take the tax hit on some others I have.
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I was originally going to wait until next year, but I decided to go ahead do the transfer. I set aside the tax money too, so it's available in April.
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Roth IRA contributions (older than 5 years) can be withdrawn with no penalty.
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I am taking mine out and DRS. FUCK this. I’m just sick of all the games and guessing. Taking a small hit on taxes is worth DRSing for me.
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I have 2/3 of my almost XXXX in fidelity IRA. I will start taking Dispersement of these after Jan 1 to DRS. This will put tax liability due in 2023. I am over 59 so no 10% penalty. This is not the way for everyone. Not financial advise. Individual investors need to check with CPA about what effect this will have for them.
This right here is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Here’s my thought process: When MOASS starts, it’s not going to finish in a couple of days. If it happens to start at some point in December, chances are it won’t finish until sometime next year. If MOASS is in progress, DRSiny my IRA will make them go purchase XXX shares while price is rising. If this happens after January 1, then it moves the taxable event to 2023, buying me some time to prepare for taxes in the event that it doesn’t take place this year/early next year. If it does happen this year/early next year, it won’t matter because all of us will have more than enough tendies to pay our taxes. I’m going to speak with a CPA about this within the next couple of days. Please chip-in with your thoughts/comments regarding IRA accounts, I would love to hear them!
Can you ask your cpa if there is a way to DRS shares by using YOURSELF as the custodian? As in, could I set up a personal LLC that held the shares in my name with me being the beneficial owner then.
I will ask them! Hopefully they are well-versed in the processes of utilizing a transfer agent.
Thank you!!
That’s what I was wondering. If IRA shares are moved in January it buys time to afford the taxable event. It removed shares from brokers who thought they could gamble with your shares, and it would exponentially increase DRS shares it seems. At least based on people here who have a majority in IRAs.