Source
r/PoliticalDiscussion•
MattVortex

What do you think about Pirate politics?

In Europe, the various Pirate Parties are gaining some ground, most notably in Germany, where the Pirate Party has 19 state parliament seats, and Sweden, where the Pirate Party has 2 European parliament seats.

The founder of the pirate movement, Rick Falkvinge, has created what he calls the 'Pirate Wheel', a platform of pirate politics, which is more than just in support of copyright reform, similar to how the worldwide Green parties have their 'four pillars', which is more than just environmentalism. This includes:

  • Copyright and patent reform
  • Open government data, transparency and accountability
  • Civil liberties, cultural liberalism
  • Universal healthcare, education
  • Universal, unconditional basic income
  • Grassroots democracy, decentralisation
  • Environmental sustainability, including support for new sources of energy like thorium

More info about the Pirate Wheel here

So what do you think about the Pirate movement?

Posted Apr 6, 2012, 11:33 AM UTC

1219
Meestersmith•

I'm not sure how a government can provide universal health care, universal education, and a guaranteed income while also being decentralized. All those policies generally require lots of government at a high level.

Also, where does this unconditional income come from?

10
Nomadtheodd•

I think it's along the lines of unemployment/ss (guessing here). The idea that you don't have a right to much, but looking at the social policies, they believe no one should be so poor that they die. Shitty luck happens, help them get on their feet.

Again, not a pirate party member, but that's my guess.

1
BookwormSkates•

I agree that some kind of major central government would be needed to successfully carry out some of their ideals. I also feel that a government's military should be allowed to keep some secrets. I assume the unconditional income would come from taxes on the higher paid members of society. We're not talking about flat wages across the board here.

1
InfernalPoser•

"No secrets: Government works for the citizens. It is not allowed to hold secrets from its boss."

If we indeed need a government, they would undoubtedly handle some classified information such as military bases, operations etc. Some information has to be classified. Of course, the more transparency the better.

"Transparency. Everybody can hold govt, politicians, and authorities accountable for their actions."

The way I see it this means "All are equal when facing the law." A nice thought but doesn't always work. (See: any french diplomat.)

"Culture Subs" implies public service. PS isn't good, because people have faith in it to always be politically independent. But nothing can ever be politically (or ideologically) independent, all news should be seen with a critical eye. (Proven by a report on video games done by the swedish public service news last year, where they only asked 10-year olds about videogames, putting videogames in the "for-kids" section of culture).

Other than that we're back to the discussion we've had in /r/anarcho_capitalism and on the ancap irc (anarcho-capitalism @ freenode for those interested). (For those wondering, we're debating whether public health care, basic income, government, etc is really needed.)

I do think that pirate politics is better than what we have now. I'm just not sure it's as good as anarcho-capitalism.

3
eighthgear•

I think everything is better than anarcho-capitalism, considering the ludicrous premise of that ideology. De facto free markets can't exist without some form of government protection and some form of regulation and law, just like a de facto free society needs some form of law to keep it that way.

3
InfernalPoser•

http://rothroad.blogspot.se/2009/09/on-regulation.html Businesses would regulate themselves to an extent. If you screw up, you go bankrupt and face lawsuits.

1
BookwormSkates•

Who pays for jail? Or is bankruptcy the ultimate punishment?

1
repmack•

They also forgot 80% tax rate. These people sound like they just want to be on their computer all day and not work. Unconditional basic income? WTF is that all about?

3
markshire•

Yeah I don't think unconditional basic income would work. No one would make money and the government would go bankrupt.

2
sexual_in_your_end_o•

Not really. A basic income can be implimented in different ways. The US came close in 70's with Nixon's Family Asistence Plan. It was basically Milton Friedmans idea of a negative income tax., but obviously it didn't pan out. They did some large scale experiments and found that people tended to work less, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing and there are ways to counteract it. First, it assumes people working less is a bad thing. I however think americans could use more time off. Second, you could just get rid of things like minimum wage laws to allow unemployment to drop and thus more people working would make up for people working less amount of time.

3
BookwormSkates•

So it's essentially the government subsidizing the lives of the low-paid foundation workers of our society to keep them happier, healthier, and more productive?

1
BookwormSkates•

Right, because everyone wants to be poor and live shitty lives.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

0
eighthgear•

Pirate Party types do seem a bit naive, but I actually do generally support what they believe in, at least based on that link. I agree that capitalism and profit motive can be good but must be regulated to protect the individual.

2
[deleted]•

I think it's great.

2
thehollowman84•

I think they have some good ideas, on transparent government and reforming democracy, strong whistleblower laws. I think some of their other policies, especially economic ones will not really work. I'd still likely vote for them, with the hope that if the major political parties see their vote share, they might co-opt some of their better ideas.

1
sexual_in_your_end_o•
  • Universal healthcare, education
  • Universal, unconditional basic income

Those two seem a little redundant. Presumably they included healthcare and education because they feel that those are basic human rights, so why wouldn't that just be included as part of the basic income?

1
utabintarbo•

Everybody wants a pony, but nobody likes to clean up the horse poop. Who will be forced to pick up the poop?

Same utopian shit; different day. :P

1
BookwormSkates•

Why not pay someone to scoop poop?

1
lokithecomplex•

Don't think the name will ever win over the masses.

Don't think that have anything especially new or innovative.

I suspect their well intentioned ideas will hit proper real world problems.

Though I hope something good comes out of it.

1