r/AskReddit•
Inoku

If your country became a totalitarian dictatorship like Nazi Germany, and you were expected to join its military or paramilitary, would you? And after that regime fell, would you be honest about your involvement with it?

I ask only because of the controversy concerning the German poet Gunther Grass, who recently wrote a poem implying that Israel's possessions of nuclear weapons is a threat to world peace. Responses in the German press (and by others who are criticizing Grass' poem) have often brought up Grass' participation in the Nazi Waffen-SS, when he was 17 years old, and his subsequent years of not mentioning the fact that he was in the SS.

My question to y'all is: would you have done the same, in his position? Or would you have hid, or fled, or done something else to avoid participating in a group that was so tainted by oppressive, genocidal policies? And when the regime fell, would you be honest about whether you did or did not participate?

I ask because, as a human being, I can't blame Grass for serving his country or for saving his own skin by doing what was expected of him. But at the same time, as a Jew, I can't take him or his poetry seriously when he is so tainted by his participation in an organization so obviously dedicated to the destruction of my people.

What say you, reddit?

Note: This thread is not about the content of Grass' poem. It is also not about whether or not [insert democratic Western state here] is already a totalitarian dictatorship, so if anyone says "but I already live in a totalitarian dictatorship: America," they deserve all the downvotes in the world. It's about what you would do in a specific situation.

Posted Apr 6, 2012, 3:41 PM UTC

015
Cyril_Clunge•

As long as the uniforms were nice and smart, yes.

4
InokuOP•

I operate under the assumption that all oppressive, totalitarian states have Hugo Boss uniforms.

3
heyvictor•

Personally if I was expected to join I would. Like the guy before me I would try to help people the best I could with the power I would have.

3
[deleted]•

I would join the military eagerly, rise through the ranks, and then use my authority to save whoever I could. If it was Nazi Germany, then I'd save the Jews.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
cdbdii•

His "dishonesty" is likely related to a fear of people seeking retribution. I know that would be a concern of mine after being involved in something like that.

As for signing up it depends on what the situation. If it's Hitler 2.0. Unlikely. Not all totalitarian regimes have to be bad. Maybe there is one guy out there that really can solve the problems I face?

2
RawrToTheSauce•

I'd flee to Canada.

1
Conchobair•

I'm pretty sure I'd be shot for speaking out.

1
red321red321•

i'd join, do as i was told so that i wouldn't be killed, then deny involvement later and spend the rest of my days as a human shell.

1
ronearc•

That possibility is why I own a gun. If my country became a militarily oppressive dictatorship, I would fight to take it down, just as every other responsible citizen should do.

That's why we have the right to bear arms.

1
ColeHollywood•

I would have done the same. People forget that no matter how noble an act something may seem to a far off observer, the reality is in your face, not theirs. I won't pretend to know what it was like, so I'm going to assume this guy was a rational and thinking human doing what seemed rational and prudent at the time. Victim of circumstance, I suppose.

1
kingpumpkin•

Yes and no. Yes I would join, but I would deny any involvement with it after, IF the regime fell. master strategist face (whatever that is...)

1
InokuOP•

Follow-up question: what would you say if your involvement became public knowledge?

1
kingpumpkin•

I would flee to the underground before I was hunted. I'm not joking at all by the way.

1
arthur_sc_king•

I would fuck off if at all possible. For example, I'm a Canadian currently living and working in the US. If, say, Santorum became President, and the GOP took the House and the Senate, and they started pulling the kind of weird shit that some states are pulling now, I'm gone.

If there were an armed resistance with half a chance, I'd consider joining (but send the rest of my family home). I've been a competitive rifle shooter on a national level, and at my best could put out an eye at 50 metres....

1
golemmaster•

I would almost certainly join the military. And, frankly, I probably wouldn't help the persecuted unless I was certain that I couldn't get in trouble for it. That said, I think that I would still hold myself accountable for my actions, irrelevant of whether or not I am punished for them.

Also, I think that Grass's critique is not invalidated by his past membership in the Waffen-SS. While it might be considered callous for someone in his position to make such a critique, I don't believe it affects the validity of his argument.

0