Source
r/sharpening•
jpanic80

New to this sub but...

I mostly do woodworking. One thing I'm struggling to understand is all the tests and flexing on this sub seem divorced from explaining and showing what bevel angle they have and durability in edges.

For woodworkers there is not much of a flex in how sharp a chisel gets but amongst serious how an edge holds up after challenging use - typically chopping end grain which leads to chipping and abrasion of the edge.

A close second would be what is involved in maintaining and restoring the edge. Given how often you have to resharpen there are many systems discarded because they produce a big wonderful edge but are just impractical.

If someone sharpened a chisel to 15 degrees and showed off what a smooth cut they got they'd be derided instantly for how that's just the acute angle which will fracture in no time.

Put another way - the serious discussion is almost always around edge quality for function. Relevantly for a kitchen knife you'd want to see both initial sharpness and how it held up after a half hour chopping veges in the kitchen.

Am I nuts? This doesn't seem to feature much. Maybe it's because woodworkers have to resharpen so often they put a premium on it?

Posted Feb 1, 2022, 12:26 AM UTC

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Kavik_79•

I dunno, i spend a lot of time hanging out in woodworking subs and forums as well, and see a fair share of people slicing paper and shaving arm hair with chisels and plane blades there too LOL Not to mention those sweet, sweet endgrain paring shots, and the plane shavings you can read a newspaper through....those demos certainly aren't taken after planning 100 board feet of curly walnut, or pounding out a few mortises.

In all seriousness though, you're not wrong. A large portion of the cut tests that knife enthusiasts do are not a practical representation of what the knife will be good for.

A large number of us know that, we just roll with it when people want to push the boundaries and show off the results. But there are others who specifically do endurance cut tests, to look at edge retention over initial balls-out sharpness.....and those aren't the ones who want their big, thick "bushcraft knife" to shave, or be able to find God's reflection in the perfectly mirror polished edge of their "edc" (where the c literally only stands for carry, never cut)

Also, we do have a rule here, where people are supposed to describe the items shown and the tools/processes used to get the results they're showing off.....they just don't a lot of the time

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jpanic80OP•

Thanks - I should emphasising I'm not complaining or criticising. How people spend their time is up to them and I waste my time on plenty of stuff I enjoy. I'm just genuinely wondering if I'm missing the point.

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Maxamus53•

I think you might be at least missing one or part of a point. For many, myself included sharpening is a hobby these tests are an excellent demonstration of the users skill. Also regarding another point you made, many of us are freehand sharpeners without a goniometer so our angles are just guess work.

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Kavik_79•

Different people just have different goals for their hobbies. To some, the act of sharpening is the fun part....even if they have no use for it

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jpanic80OP•

Agree and don't quarrel. I hope my comment didn't suggest I thought otherwise at that general level it was poorly expressed if it was.

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Kavik_79•

Nah, I don't think so at least. I definitely wasn't bothered 😁

1
moebeta•

Too many steels, too drastically different wear resistance and toughness properties among them, too many blade patterns, too many differences in oob geometry, to much variety in material being cut. Not enough of a through line to compare. One could use a folder all day breaking down boxes. Another using fixed blades cutting mirepoix.

Most... opening the shipping box of the next knife they bought.

But there's also a formula from Dr Larrin Thomas to predict catra tester results with edge angle and carbide fraction. So the most consistent machine controlled test already has a very good mathematical solution to the question of edge life before the blade even exists.

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jpanic80OP•

I agree there will always be many, many other factors. But geez let us know if you're talking about a total angle of 15-20 degrees or 40-60 degrees!

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moebeta•

Well, for the most impressive demos of initial sharpness, it's a low angle. The dominance edge angle has over all other sharpening parameters is overwhelming. You can improve total slicing cut count by an order of magnitude with angle changes well within the range of manufacturer output, while using coarser or finer grit changes the count less than twenty percent from extra coarse to full polish.

It also overwhelms other steps in steel and knife creation like cryo vs regular q&t, pm vs ingot casting, and even thickness behind the edge (for cutting thin material that falls away) I had a bunch of test mules made to compare all those factors, and was blown away by how much edge angle controlled initial sharpness and total cutting duration. More acute angles get sharper in required effort to compete a single cut, and also cut longer, in required effort to cut to a given target amount, as long as the knife can hold up.

A lot of knife cutting doesn't require anything beyond separating the material into multiple pieces. With that, the durability of the edge and the quality of the cut are secondary. The majority of knives for sale don't have good cutting edges, but people only need them to tear (or pry) Very different from the surface finish needs of woodworking and the desire to minimize further finishing and shaping steps.

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burp110•

No you are not nuts. All of us are nuts btw

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Motor-Decision-1355•

Bingo!

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Amazon-Prime-package•

I think sharpening is a broad enough topic to handle the newspaper slicing mirror polish kitchen knife flexes and also posts about more durable and long-lasting chisel edges with in-depth discussion about bevel angle. The fact that we mostly get the former AFAICT is because the average person is more likely to have kitchen knives. If you or anyone else has a post on the latter, I would love to read it and I think many others here would be interested as well

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RudeRook•

Yes that is the teeter-totter we ride, acuteness vs durability. Both performance and edge retention are important to most of us. That's why I like D2 tool steel. That is why there is so many cut test vids. There is no precise angle in freehand sharpening. Just more acute = more slicey and less durable. Roller jigs makes fixed angles easier for chisels and planer blades.

https://youtu.be/2c97dZkXVvg Which Budget Blade Steel Cuts the Longest? Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors

Durable Norton India IB8 combo oilstone (8x2x1", 150/400 grit, $22), mineral oil, and green compound on denim strop is great for knives and tools. https://youtu.be/xlwKYeq909g CHEAP and SIMPLE Sharpening System. Brian Hilson

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drummerdavedre•

I just usually buy pre ww2 steel for my chisels and planes. Certain brands of course, I hardly ever have to sharpen them and when I do it’s not much.

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jpanic80OP•

Yeah I'm in a phase of using old, "soft" chisels with oilstones, honing at a very high angle on a buffing wheel, at the moment. Frequent sharpening is the key - you get fast and efficient at it, don't put it off and enjoy your work more.

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