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r/DeathMarch•
unknownmat

What do you like/dislike about Death March?

Light Novel

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what makes this series unique or interesting, as well as what aspects do you dislike and might wish were written differently.

This series has been on my mind recently. Randomly, I have seen it mentioned in a few different threads where posters complained that Satou's disposition regarding slavery completely turned them off to this series. As someone who rather enjoys the series, I nevertheless found myself unable to defend it because I can't figure out why I actually like it. I was hoping that maybe some fellow fans might help me to better understand my own mind.

I found the series through the anime, but I'm now an English LN reader currently waiting for Volume 16 to be released. I tend to get really bored with this kind of isekai series. I've started and eventually dropped series such as Smartphone, Wiseman's Grandchild, Seventh Son, Isekai Cheat Magician, How Not To Summon, and I'm a Behemoth. There are other series that started out strong, but that I eventually lost interest in when the stories just never seemed to go anywhere such as By The Grace Of The Gods, and Grimgar. And there are still others that I might read if they come out, but that I no longer really look forward to such as Leadale, and Last Of My Kind.

Yet somehow, through it all, Death March continues to be entertaining and I find myself looking forward to each new release. The series even survived a recent re-read. But I honestly can't put my finger on why this is. Objectively, I can't think of anything in particular this series has that at least one of the above series lacks. So I was hoping that other users in this forum might be able to help me out.

Some of the things I like about Death March:

  • The world is a big place, and the story is clearly building up to something - I find myself looking forward to each new mystery and revelation

  • The world is a dangerous place with a lot of suffering - even though Satou's OP status often allows him (and us by extension) to ignore this.

  • Satou doesn't sexualize the girls he travels with

  • Satou is fairly mature as a 30 year old man - he takes responsibility for his party, and he doesn't waste paragraphs being shy and awkward because he glimpsed a breast or something

  • Satou has a libido and doesn't make a big deal about it when he needs to get it taken care of

  • Satou has fallen for Aialize and sticks to this conviction. He doesn't waste paragraphs agonizing over "should I or shouldn't I?" with every woman who crosses his path

That's just a partial list, and I don't know if any of these bullets is unique or interesting enough to justify my overall interest in this series. Hence, I would love to hear other thoughts and perspectives.

Posted Feb 13, 2022, 1:01 AM UTC

2147
Dangerous_Employee47•

Like you I love the Death March light novels and I love the manga adaptation. The anime adaptation could have been considerably better, particularly if they had included light novels volumes four and five but this would have required twenty four episodes.

The reason for my complaint about the anime is that it did poorly enough not to get a sequel but also because this story is basically an RPG. In the first three volumes our main party gathers together in one town and all end up with both a reason to stay together and to travel. Volume 3 ends with traveling to our first new towns and having some build up of the party coming together. By the end of volume five, besides being accepted as noble, we now know that someone is trying to resurrect demons and that ANYONE is mentioned in passing, Satou will meet them sooner or later.

Oh, and the anime opening showing the bean warriors as incompetent fighters needing rescue instead of the natural samurai and ninja that they are destined to become pissed me off.

10
unknownmatOP•

I'm glad you mentioned the anime because I think this is relevant to my question. I can't think of any series where the existing fan base was pleased with the anime adaptation. But Death March was good enough that I started reading the LNs, which - arguably - is all that the anime is supposed to do. This makes it better than several of the series that I mentioned above, where I never even bothered to make the transition to the LN at all because I just didn't care enough about what happened next. As far as I can tell, nothing about the Death March anime really sets it apart from these other series, and yet somehow it still managed to shine brightly enough that I wanted to keep adventuring with Satou when it was over.

this story is basically an RPG

Do you think this is part of what makes Death March different?

5
Dangerous_Employee47•

I think that the RPG roots of the story are a bit more obvious to me considering the hundreds of them that I have played over the last thirty years. But then it still took until volume five of the light novels for me to notice.

Arfretia could probably also be considered a RPG campaign with a super hard solo dungeon ending on super hard bonus boss once the party expands to two people since they did the "final dungeon" first.

By the Grace of the Gods certainly seems like a random events plots through the first five volumes. Volumes six, seven, and eight show that the plot is him overcoming the damage that the Earth God inflicted on him.

Smartphone was fun enough until he found all nine wives. I missed the last five volumes due to boredom.

2
Dangerous_Employee47•

One of the many plot points and themes of Death March that I also like is some of the nods to realism in the first volume. Non nobles have no toilets or toilet paper or bathing. Slavery and abuse of slaves is common. Tribalism like the hatred of demihumans have historical reasons.

Finally, it is a running joke about how much effort Satou goes into hiding his abilities to people outside of his party. But it is proven quickly that it saves him from countless bad situations, including the demons not knowing what he is truly capable of, like where he gets all of his holy weapons. Just a hint of him fighting demons has nobles demanding he play their little power games.

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unknownmatOP•

I like this thought. Essentially, what makes Death March stand above the rest is the quality of the wold building. NPCs feel like they are living lives separate from the antics of the protagonist, and their living conditions and ethical commitments are believable given their circumstances and the time period.

That's actually a pretty solid observation and I think it might go a long way to explaining the longevity of this series on my bookshelf.

3
sachiotakliSleepy Moderator•

DM's pretty solid in what it does in both the LN and WN, which is a relaxing series with enough of a bite where it needs it. Though I have a few issues with the LN, I won't really touch upon most of them.

World-building is better than average for an isekai (probably because it was a 2013 WN). You don't really get bored from the nice bits and details that pop up from the cast's interaction with the world. The WN I feel is slightly superior in that regard, but the LN is still above average when it comes to the competition on the LN isekai market.

It's laid-back without necessarily being self-fulfillment. DM is pretty thorough with the delivery of a good relaxing time while also having room to not make it feel like it's only about enjoying that relaxing atmosphere. It's not "I am OP and I will have a super happy relaxing slow life all the time and I will ultra mega demolish anyone who stands in my way!" as much as it feels more like a "let's take a break for a bit from our usual OP routine." Also to compare DM with another isekai LN, the Fenrir Cooking LN (I forgot the name) imo suffers from having extremely detailed cooking scenes but the adventure itself isn't as colorfully detailed, while for DM the way the relaxing parts are written don't overpower the rest of series.

Satou being cautious instead of being indiscreet and rash about his powers. A ton of isekai aren't very secretive about the abilities of MC, even during the 2013s when the WN of DM was made. Satou stands out for being OP while being careful to not attract attention in a way that is also logical and matches basic human worries. It's not "the weak reincarnated/transported MC was secretly OP and ultra mega demolishes their enemies!" (yes, I will continue to refer to generic trends within isekai writing in this fashion). The lack of standing out creates rather organic relationships between Satou and the people he meets, even if the reason they meet is because his powers secretly did something to make that meeting possible in the first place. His worries for being outed as OP also stem from his acknowledgement that he might not have what it takes to deal with some secret higher being that he isn't aware of and whose attention he might accidentally attract. The battle against the Dog-Head Demon Lord and the Golden Boar Demon Lord were two fights that were rather high-stakes, and had Satou been unsecretive about his powers, who knows if these enemies would have planned out a better way to deal with Satou by using the knowledge they could have gained has Satou been forever showing off his abilities.

An unorthodox harem that's more like family. Trust me, I actually like harems. I'm a fan of Ken Akamatsu for being the godfather of the modern harem genre with his "Love Hina" and "Negima" along side Yabuki Kentarou and Hasemi Saki for the modern ecchi harem with their "To-Love ru" series. But even if I like harems, a lot of the ones that pop out of isekai are as uninspiring as most of the post-2008 non-isekai harems (2008 being when the original TL-r ended). There basically hasn't been much done by most authors to mix it up over the two decades ever since "Love Hina" had ended. DM stands out for being unorthodox, resorting to a more "familial" style gathering of our mentally adult male MC and multiple females with more kiddish tendencies. And they stick to their roles really well. Satou is very much mentally adult "dad" and is refreshingly unfazed by most of the childish antics by Arisa and Mia, the "cheeky middle children", but is also somewhat of a "whipped dad" thanks to that same pair when it comes to his perverted interests in more adult-bodied women (It actually kinda reminds me a bit of Zettai Karen Children in that aspect, come to think about it). Pochi, Tama, and Nana are basically the "youngest kids" while Lulu and Liza are the relatively more mature "older sisters". It's a relationship dynamic that isn't often used, and it isn't 100% all about potential romance either. It ain't an "I am OP and have a relaxing isekai travel with my beautiful harem!" kinda dynamic. Even when Zena comes around, it's more like a "sweet family friend" with a crush on the dad, while Karina is that "tsundere junior coworker" from the dad's job.

Edit: I don't really have much against the series. If I had to say anything, it would be that the final chapters (arcs) of the WN were rushed due to being made at the same time as the LN releases, which likely hindered the quality control of the progress towards the WN's ending, which was pretty bad, but not the worst thing I've seen. "Rise of The Shield Hero"'s WN final arcs were much worse imo, lmao

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unknownmatOP•

Wow, lots of good ideas here.

World-building is better than average for an isekai...

Agreed. I hadn't realized until it was pointed out, because the setting and story elements superficially resembles so many other series. The world is just so big and the various elements feel organic rather than mere plot-contrivances. It gives weight to Satou's actions in a way that a mere plot device would not. E.g. the starving kids on the streets were part of a large decades-old systemic problem that took many different steps over several novels to really make a difference - they didn't suddenly show up in one novel so that Satou could snap his fingers and heroically fix everything.

a relaxing series with enough of a bite where it needs it ... without necessarily being self-fulfillment

You're right. Satou is so OP that the series doesn't really challenge you too much which makes for a very low-stress read. But it's also just exciting enough that it avoids getting boring or becoming aimless like some other "slow life" series.

Satou being cautious instead of being indiscreet and rash about his powers...The lack of standing out creates rather organic relationships between Satou and the people he meets

Yes! I think this is one of the key differences between Satou and other OP protagonists. He consciously tries to avoid being in a situation where everyone is stroking his ego and saying how amazing he is - something the story could easily devolve into. And you're right - this brings a number of benefits. It avoids the story becoming cheap wish-fulfillment. And it allows his interaction with the residents of the world be organic and on equal terms, allowing him to form real human relationships. By contrast if he were some out-and-proud hero, he would automatically interact with everyone from a position of power. This would completely change the tone of the series.

It's somewhat ironic that the thing Death March is often criticized for - Satou not using his superpowers to save all slaves - is maybe the thing I like most about it. NOT sticking your nose into trouble unnecessarily is a genuinely believable and mature approach.

An unorthodox harem that's more like family

Yeah, I think I mentioned this above, but I really like that there is no sexual tension in his party. "Family" is an apt description. It's just not that interesting of a plot device, in my opinion (especially for anyone old enough to grow facial hair). It allows the story to focus on other things that I personally find more interesting.

4
sachiotakliSleepy Moderator•

I once talked to a few people on the subreddit discord about the "Satou solving slavery" thing, and really what exactly counts as "solving slavery"?

Like, after abolishing the general slavery system, what's next? Is that supposed to be the happy ending?

No. Fuck no. There is so much more fucking work to be done.

To add, debt slavery, prisoner/criminal slavery, and racial slavery are the three broader types of slavery that I've noticed from DM, and trying to dismantle any single one of these in a way that would be fulfilling would forever change the identity of the series and likely take over the entire story if they tried to even pursue it.

Even after the abolishment of the slavery system itself, there will need to be a shift in public policies that don't involve slavery, like the giving of individual rights, access to goods, citizenship. And then there's also the need to deal with the economy that thrived on the existence of an exploitable work force that had no way of defending itself. If there is a need to increase the livelihood of this new non-slavery-bound workforce, there is likely going to be a need for an increase in taxes on average, as the now non-slaves will also need to be accounted for the in the government expenses, meaning a tighter wallet for the local economy.

And then there is the issue about public opinions, such as the perception of the "superior being" now needing to interact with the "inferior being" as if they were equals. That outrage would need to be satiated and dealt with appropriately, and that shit takes so much fucking time. Do people not fucking understand the depths of slavery and racial discrimination in the real world that its scars still manifest in the real world like in American society despite American slavery formally being gone for over a fucking century?! And I'm not even a westerner, and I know this shit! Let's not even talk about the American prison system!

This kinda shit is just honestly waaaaaaaaay outside of the scope of why I even like DM in the first place. I'm here to have a good relaxing time with an occasional spicy moment here and there, not read an entire saga about the abolishment of slavery and other societal issues that stem from discrimination that in-story would probably last at least 1 fucking century, if not more.

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unknownmatOP•

These are all good points, and remind me of Yegge's Shit's Easy Syndrome. "Why doesn't he just abolish slavery?" While well-intentioned, it's such a naive line of thinking that I can't help but to suspect that people who voice it are probably just children.

But I actually disagree with this sentiment on much simpler grounds. That is to say, Satou is under no moral obligation to fix any problem at all, even if he is capable of doing so. He is only responsible for his own immediate actions and for the well-being of those under his protection.

Satou is actually a pretty decent person. His traveling companions are all happy and thriving, an outcome that he actively works to achieve. He consistently leaves each area much better off than when he arrived. By just about any standard, this makes him a good person. I'm unaware of any moral system where being a good person requires you to do your utmost to rectify every possible injustice you encounter.

I wonder how many of the people criticizing Satou are dedicating their own lives to fixing poverty or adopting foster children, or donating generously to charities, etc. My guess is almost none of them.

2
clohwk•

Only read the WN and manga, and watched the anime, so I'll comment based on that.

I like it because it's a lighthearted, fun read. Even when things get serious, we know Satou will pull through somehow. Deus ex machina eventually have a deeper reason behind them, and never require hand waving.

In these times when the world seems to be getting worse in every way (personally, at least), and one person's power can't even make any headway, it's nice to live vicariously through Satou's succeses.

It's nice that Satou is an adult and remains an adult mentally even though his physical age is regressed. Too many stories have adults reincarnating or becoming children and turning childish. Some of them are properly explained, like The Man Loved By The Gods, but many are just hand waved away.

He handles troublesome situations maturely like a proper working adult would, without becoming a Karen or resorting to the "bang table, shout loudly" strategy or going all murder hobo.

Even though he is reluctant to kill, he is still able to take drastic measures when needed, and there's no holier than thou preaching from the author about superior JP/CN/KR morality. He properly recognises when his cultural biases causes trouble, and there's no attempt by the author to turn a bug into a feature.

He likes older women like a man his real age should, and does not sexualize little girls. Yet he is properly confused by special cases like Nana's; I think it's great. He recognises situations like Lulu's, where he acknowledges that she'll become a beauty to his taste in the future without trying to groom her.

Satou makes mistakes and fixes them; at any rate, he faces the ramifications of his mistakes. His experiments sometimes fail and don't all automatically become great successes. Small things beget small results, and big things get big results; there's few (or no) cases of him buying a cheap lottery ticket to automatically hit first prize.

His behaviour remains consistent. He's not like those MCs who lick boots when he's small and then go around bullying those weaker than him after becoming strong. I find his character generally likeable.

Satou is a great MC, and his story has enough ups and downs to be interesting without becoming dark or melodramatic. The story's execution is not perfect, but is nice enough I've re-read it two more times after the first reading.

There are themes in Death March which make me refrain from recommending it to friends and family, but I've recommended it in cases where someone asks for recommendations of stories like this.

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unknownmatOP•

There are themes in Death March which make me refrain from recommending it to friends and family

Really!? Such as what?

I like it because it's a lighthearted, fun read. Even when things get serious, we know Satou will pull through somehow. Deus ex machina eventually have a deeper reason behind them, and never require hand waving.

Yeah. I like the OP protagonist plot device because it allows the story to be more laid back and focus on different things. I don't see the point in dragging a fight out for ten episodes filled with a bunch of dick-wagging when you know the good guy is eventually going to win anyway, for example.

And you're right, I can't think of any deus ex machina in Death March - mostly Satou's success just comes from being really really super OP.

It's nice that Satou is an adult and remains an adult mentally even though his physical age is regressed...He handles troublesome situations maturely like a proper working adult would, without becoming a Karen or resorting to the "bang table, shout loudly" strategy or going all murder hobo.

Yeah. I completely agree. Satou clearly has the mindset of a 30 year-old man, and I think this is actually quite refreshing for an isekai. Not the least reason being that it skips all the awkwardness of puberty. Death March basically has zero coming-of-age antics, for which I am thankful.

...there's no holier than thou preaching from the author about superior JP/CN/KR morality. He properly recognises when his cultural biases causes trouble...

Yeah. It really bothers me when isekai protagonists barge into the throne-room and lecture the king about representative democracy. "Let me tell you about our superior way of living using small words so that even your primitive mind will understand".

Satou's actual approach is the right mixture of humility and trouble-avoidance that I would expect from someone who is intellectually an adult.

He .. does not sexualize little girls... He recognises situations like Lulu's, where he acknowledges that she'll become a beauty to his taste in the future without trying to groom her.

Agreed. I like that Satou does not even consider the girls under his care as objects of affection. Anybody with actual experience being in a position of authority (e.g. as a parent, or as a care-giver, or as a boss) will realize that this is the only appropriate attitude. It's actually disturbing how many other isekai protagonists fail at this basic aspect of human decency.

Satou makes mistakes and fixes them

Oh? Do you have some examples of mistakes he's made?

... his character generally likeable.

I tend to agree, although I do worry that he's a bit too much of a generic self-insert character. I wouldn't mind if he were more opinionated, or more flawed, or quirkier in some way.

3
clohwk•

Themes which make me avoid recommending the story to friends and relatives:

  • Harem
  • Arisa coming on to Satou - there's bound to be someone who's going to interpret it as Satou being a paedophile.
  • Slavery - both the society having slavery and Satou having slaves

Some of Satou's mistakes:

  • He does stuff that's pretty much trial and error
  • Enchanting Liza's spear
  • Early fights when he's just getting to know his powers
  • Final fight against the demon god where he underestimated DG and had the rug pulled out from under him

Satou's trial and error experiments are very refreshing when compared to a lot of CN and KR stuff, where the MC can somehow successfully reinvent something just because he/she once read it in a textbook or Wikipedia. I've seen a few JP stories with this problem, too, but far fewer. Could just be sampling bias, though.

In fact, I find that the whole concept of reincarnators and transmigrators advancing technology in the Death March world is handled very realistically. They actually need to put in considerable effort and ultimately need massive backing to get to a high level. Only a few other stories show this (though not as much): Death Mage Doesn't Want A 4th Time and Man Loved By The Gods. If restricted mainly to cooking, I think there's also Bear X 4, Reincarnated As A Sword and the one where the MC got isekai-ed and then takes care of a God's 2 children.

5
unknownmatOP•
  • Harem
  • Arisa coming on to Satou - there's bound to be someone who's going to interpret it as Satou being a paedophile.
  • Slavery - both the society having slavery and Satou having slaves

Ah, you're talking about recommending it to people who don't already understand LN and anime culture. Makes sense.

Satou's trial and error experiments are very refreshing when compared to a lot of CN and KR stuff, where the MC can somehow successfully reinvent something just because he/she once read it in a textbook or Wikipedia. I've seen a few JP stories with this problem, too, but far fewer. Could just be sampling bias, though.

Is the DG fight a spoiler? I'm only on book 15 - so the last big fight he had was against the Dog-headed demon lord.

I understand what you mean now. So Satou isn't just some Mary Sue because, despite being level 300, he's not infinitely wise nor does he always know the right answer. He still has to stumble around looking for the best solution like anyone else would. I agree that this is a strength of the series.

As you've noted, very few people, even armed with Wikipedia and a well-stocked modern library, could go back to AD 1000 and put together a working automobile (or a gun, or whatever). Very likely, they would more resemble Nate Bargatze who couldn't even prove he was from the future.

3
clohwk•

DG fight shouldn't be a spoiler, not with all the foreshadowing thrown about. Anyway, I should remind you that I was commenting about the WN; I won't guarantee anything in the LN.

3
Realistic-Exit-5085•

I’m not going to drag this out: really good plot and no fan service

2
unknownmatOP•

Heh, you really didn't drag it out.

Can you give an example of what you mean by "good plot"? I'm not disagreeing, but it's hard for me to distinguish between a plot being actually good vs. being merely something that matches my tastes.

no fan service

Is this true? I find the frequent mention of the size of Nana and Katrina's busts to be fan-servicey, for example. Particularly how often Satou finds himself in contact with said busts. Or how about all the times that the girls drag him into the bath?

1
Realistic-Exit-5085•

The good plot may just be my taste but I find the balance of battles to slice of life stuff j be very good. I should correct my statement: it’s not a harem like hs dxd or arifureta with literal sex scenes and just a stupid amount of fan service in general

2
I-Kneel-Before-None•

I love the world. The system and kingdoms are awesome.

I love the OP insanity. I've always enjoyed laughing when an OP MC wrecks people and is lauded for being a badass.

I don't like Arisa and (to a lesser extent) the other girls. Kids are annoying. The author did a good job portraying them.

I don't like the fact that Satou is SUUUUPER dumb sometimes.

All in all, I love the series but I can't tell ya why. It's not an objective opinion. I just have fun reading it.

2
unknownmatOP•

All in all, I love the series but I can't tell ya why. It's not an objective opinion. I just have fun reading it.

Heh, this was my problem too. Usually I can point to a few specific things that makes a series its own thing. But I struggled to do that with Death March.

I don't like the fact that Satou is SUUUUPER dumb sometimes

Can you think of some examples? I'm not really sure what you mean.

1
Dangerous_Employee47•

There are multiple examples of Satou, who supposedly has very high intelligence, just does not notice plot points that are obvious to the reader. For example, he never completely figured out the demon inspired conspiracy against him in the Labyrinth City. His multiple disguises work in the short term but in the long term anyone of his closer friends are going to figure it out, particularly in his firm. He dismisses several girl's romantic interest in him as childish crushes, forgetting that in this world those girls ARE considered adults and have a rational component to their interest (for example, he is obviously quite wealthy).

Someone on the Fandom site suggested that his summoner is actively interfering with him noticing much of the overarching plot until he is actually powerful enough to do something about it.

2
unknownmatOP•

he never completely figured out the demon inspired conspiracy against him in the Labyrinth City

Are you talking about when he was being falsely accused by Poputema? Was there some aspect he failed to figure out that he should have? Off the top of my head I can't think of any dangling loose ends.

he dismisses several girl's romantic interest in him as childish crushes

I thought he just wasn't interested, so acted as if he didn't notice. I can't recall him dismissing their interest, though.

His multiple disguises work in the short term but in the long term anyone of his closer friends are going to figure it out, particularly in his firm.

I'll grant you this one - his disguises can only work so long as they remain geographically and temporally separated, given the lack of video cameras and long-distance communication. I'm believe his main party already knows about his disguises, and for the girls in the firm who have the chance to interact with multiple personas, it is (or should be) only a matter of time before they figure it out.

2
Tsukikira•

What I like the most is how he solves things. The pattern where he absolutely avoids standing out for the very real fear of being threatened by those in political power mostly through use of his friends as hostages is a very real motivation that he tries to avoid. He is a programmer, and to that end, his solutions are often the type of thing I would try in his position.

Certain things improve his standing, such as his flaws:

  1. For most of the first half of the web novels, one of his biggest flaws is his inability to chant. I know they fixed it in the WN, and we've not gotten there in the Light Novel though I hear it was delayed there. The inability to directly freely make overpowered magic because he has to run that spell through the limitations of the scroll-crafting facility which can only produce intermediate or weaker magic (and has rules against magic that can be used to spy or steal) makes it a very real limiting factor. Even with his ability to use intermediate spells and have them roughly match advanced magic, it makes him more limited in impact across the high stakes battles he's had to face. The fact that little children have succeeded where he is still struggling makes it feel... like he's human. It also ties into his existing weakness of tempo and rhythm, which is how he can master a skill to play an instrument and still utterly fail to play the instrument.
  2. His very real dismissal of Poputema. He knew the man was unsavory, but he mostly ignored the plots against him as much as he could because he sensed dealing with the matter was going to be too much trouble. It was very real since he had already made the Viceroy and his wife his allies, and therefore nothing too troublesome was going to come from the green man that he couldn't handle. The only annoying part was that it was clear to all the readers what was going on, but in Satou's point of view, he was working himself to achieve multiple other objectives, and thus let it drop from his mind.
  3. There was a couple of points where Satou deliberately was so involved that he overworked himself. A minor flaw in that it's resolved by him going to sleep and resting, but it shows that even with his superhuman body, he couldn't just endlessly advance forward and ignore sleep. In fact, it's times where he is overworking himself that tipped off some of his disguises in the WN, because he literally overworked himself enough to make mistakes.
2
cqbkajukenbo•

LN here, so beware of possible spoilers below.

[BLUF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLUF_(communication): Satou is incredibly stupid for a MC with maxed out INT - until the story needs him to come up with some brilliant plan or over-powered item.

!Poputema sums up the parts I dislike most about the series. It is obvious to anyone & everyone that the Green Noble is a problem.!<

!No one in the city has anything good to say about P. P reminds Satou of an enemy just because of his odd speech patterns. P makes some of Satou's most vulnerable friends uncomfortable, like the little Princess. Satou knows the homeless kids would rather starve than be around Poputema, but Satou never asks anyone about it. P's behavior is abnormal. P knows critical info about the temp viceroy but never offers it up until cornered. Satou knows P is lying about the fire-starter. and more...!<

!Yet the all-powerful MC does nothing about P until after it is revealed that he is derailing his pet project and after he has seriously traumatized one of the beast girls.!<

!No surveillance, no investigation, no dropping him in a volcano, nothing - even though Satou's family could be impacted by him at any moment. What is the point of a dozen secret identities if not for things exactly like this? Were Kuro & Nanashi too busy to make a house call and pressure the guy directly? I guess they were having scones with the Baron or something. I lost count of the number of times he made excuses about not poking the hornet's nest or whatever. For someone with a maxed out INT, Satou is pretty stupid - until the plot armor needs him to do or craft something OP, of course.!<

!I thought that maybe I missed some explanation for Satou's behavior on the first reading. Apparently not.!<

!I am not a demi-god, but if something has a CHANCE of threatening my loved ones, I will take any steps I can to protect them, even if it is just filing a police report. Not "Meh, it will be fine. Let's go shopping." An excuse that Satou was under some sort of misdirection spell or brainwashing effect would be better than "Oh? He is abusing the innocent? You know I could have asked almost anyone in my back yard about that weeks ago, but I did not want to interrupt my lunch appointments. This could be a bother. I guess I need to talk to him about it tomorrow. I wonder why he is walking around the slums again. He says he never goes there, but i know he is lying. You can't fool my magic map!"!<

!I guess when you can just pay to have your kids resurrected your values change or something.!<

I'll give Satou this much: He is true to his ideals about NOT wanting to be a Hero.

!Giving someone OP healing potions -that you have an essentially infinite supply of, by the way- does not absolve you from asking "Hey, who brutalized you and left you for dead in my garage? How did you get broken bones while taking a nap? Anyone remember anything?" Those are all pretty straightforward questions to ask with even average intelligence.!<

2
Tsukikira•

That's misplacing INT and WIS - WIS is the insight stat, and yes, Satou is a bit lacking in that statistic. The point was, Satou's family could not be impacted by him easily at any moment, because he went out of his way to get the Viceroy (and a number of local nobles) on his side early in the volume and end of the previous volume. In fact, when talking with the Viceroy on how to deny Poputema the ability to harm the children, he gets the suggestion to essentially put them in his orphanage, which puts them legally under his protection. (Commoners have no legal recourse to injuries by nobles, especially common orphans)

The reason for this suggestion is because the world is built around the concept that Nobles are the rulers, and the commoners have little to no rights if a noble is causing the issue. Starting a fight between nobles isn't allowed in this situation; Satou's mind even thinks, when she suggests there's an easy fix, he thinks, 'She's not suggesting I assassinate him, is she?' - before he realizes the crux of the issue is that Poputema is striking at those that don't have rights.

In fact, it isn't until after Poputema unleashes a wave of demons in the form of the plunderers that Satou finally pays actual attention - and shortly thereafter spots the greater green demon on his map. He even admits that the man acted like a demon, but because he didn't realize mind-control was hidden to his menu, he didn't realize it was a demon's actions. Same way he doesn't realize that Poputema's walking path is deliberately set to trace a magic circle until he saw it from the sky, and once he did, he erased it to be rid of it.

2
cqbkajukenbo•

I think I understand your points and your distinctions, but I guess we just disagree.

My view is that P is a possible threat to Tama, Pochi, Arisa, Lulu, Liza, Nana, and Mia - and Satou does next to nothing.

By the same token, he either cares about the welfare of the orphans or he doesn't.

!Satou cares enough to build an orphanage but he doesn't care why kids literally in his back yard the day he moved in have signs of serious physical abuse?!!<

  • All of Satou's stats are "99+" or "+99" everywhere I've seen. Taking your assertion that there is a "WIS" stat at face-value, I have never seen anything (in the LN) state his "WIS" was not maxed the same way. That being said, I could be wrong, especially when it comes to the WN, etc. If the point is that his WIS is his "human experience" then I will swap the use of the word stupid for ignorant and my point stands. Willful ignorance at that.

  • The idea of a demi-god essentially waiting for permission to do everything necessary to protect his "daughters" (just so it does not make the Nobility unhappy) is silly to me. Satou constantly turns down higher titles that would render the issue moot. Nanashi can also walk into the King's chambers at will and have P removed - or at least investigated.

!He is already effectively king of the world because of the dragon valley anyway. A walk into any city core and saying "Hi!" fixes the problem.!<

From my point of view he is just lazy. He doesn't want to be bothered. At first his attitude was amusing, maybe even refreshing. But in this case it really rubs me the wrong way.

!Pochi has to literally scream for help before he starts taking it all seriously. Definitely not The World's #1 Dad!<

If he would have just went to confront him as Kuro then the problem / story would have moved along - but he did not. Instead he keeps going "ANOTHER Demon Lord? Nah. Must be my imagination. I know the prophecies say they are all coming, but they have not been right so fa... Oh, wait a minute..."

I am about 2 hours into the second read of LN11. The (English) text makes Satou seem like one of the most dense MCs in recent memory. Maybe I am being too harsh, maybe I have missed something else, and i know it is just a story but .. >!as someone who has been in foster care & worked with abused children, it is disturbing to see how revered Satou is by all the kids when it took so long for him to actually step up!< Satou did not do a good job here, IMO.

EDIT Maybe the author just needed more research into the topic to handle it better or something

2
Tsukikira•

Right, we definitely disagree here, because Satou is relying on the concept of indirect force and rational individuals. Poputema's actions point to a disgusting individual, but a rational individual; meaning one who is not risking his own position. A noble attacking the possessions of another noble is in turn risking their positions due to the lawful retaliation - and because Pendragon is an ally of the Viceroy, it effectively makes any attack a politically suicidal one. Satou is not waiting for permission to act in the defense of the girls - they are under no attack throughout the entire volume.

From my point of view, he's kind of selfish. He doesn't like seeing children in the street begging, but he's certainly not dropping or rearranging anything to save them faster - when he helps improve the city, it's under the guise of a hobby (And really, it is a hobby, not his pastime). Pochi's screaming for help gets him to actually look in the alleyway and save the children faster - it's because she's actually bringing the situation to his attention for the first time.

As for your disturbing comment, I don't see why how long it took for him to step up matters that much - because let's be honest, none of the other adults were stepping up at all and were not inclined to. Even if it took him weeks to ultimately set up an orphanage (from when he arrived in the city), he technically pulled it off shortly after he got permission. When he realized the children were being attacked in back alleys, he prioritized handling it in a manner that was consistent with the society he lives in. He's selfish in that he prioritizes not revealing himself over people's non-lethal suffering.

As for using Kuro to confront Poputema, he certainly couldn't do that when he first went as himself to verify it, and the first thing he did was check if Poputema was a demon, because that would have let him have open season on handling it. Instead, he spent that night stopping Poputema from hurting anyone, and then immediately went on his plan to indirectly save the children. Which he completed by that evening. So it's not like he took very long to resolve the issue either. Kuro doing anything to attack a noble just would have gotten that alias marked as a criminal.

2
unknownmatOP•

All good points. Satou shares many qualities with other OP isekai protagonists, so it can be easy to just thoughtlessly lump him in - and thus my surprise when I wind up liking him much more than I do the typical protagonist from other seemingly similar series. But you are right that he has several flaws that significantly inhibit him from just casually doing whatever he wants. This make the story feel like more of a challenge and it is fun to read how he overcomes these weaknesses.

2
RailDex1917•

I dislike how easy it is for Satou to get skills. He literally has to just do something resembling the skill and he acquires it and can level it up instantly (puts skill points to max). Like spinning Zena around got him the dancing skill. Tries playing an instrument once? Gets music skill. Eyes hurt from light? Vision adjustment skill

2
unknownmatOP•

It's a fair point. I can see that this reduces the tension in the series and makes his accomplishments feel cheap.

It's a bit funny that he has no musical or artistic talent, so even if he's technically flawless if still sounds bad. And he has to work at chanting, so not everything comes easily to him.

1
Su_Shane•

Well I don't know this might help u since I mostly read manhwa and manhwa novels..to tell u the truth..​I think anime​ and all are pretty lame like I feels they don't seems to stop until their generation or something stop it (lol) and takes so very much times .. I only like some but surprisingly I read death march LN and WN both which I never thought I'd be and it become my 2nd best.. So if u ask the reason..

I like the personality of wn Satou which sometimes blunt like when u touch someone near him like he kick the god at the face and all for aze yet never abuse power.. I mean he sometimes cheat but I never saw him abuse and I feels like it itself is cool unlike some characters that makes to look cool like wearing mask and overthrowing the world upside down like a teenager or something might like.​.. maybe I just like the feel of.. U don't need to do good things or great things just because u have everything but u do when u want to do with the power u have.. But in LN​ he's pretty goody-two-shoes lol

To be truth I find boring at LN I mean its great and all and I mtl to vol 19 but it can't be compare to my 1 fav novel..​well I think it might because i read my 1 fav novel or something or because I find uncomfortable things in there like ludama plots and all lol and even more there're much like those in more vol lol so terrible that I sometimes skip so much..and they die so easily like almost no meaning (it's not the feeling of u crush something great easily.. Its the feeling of it doesn't matter much) so yeah .. I mean yellow freak demon die pityfull and all can be understandable..

2
Unable-Appearance-48•

I think my case is unique, I liked the final volume of the WN, specifically the part of Satou's division.... and in more detail.... the part where everyone is admiring her personalized version... and Sera begins to take him to the bushes... where it's dark... hahahahaha

1
unknownmatOP•

I assume this is a pretty big spoiler. You might want to hide it. NOTE: I've only read up to volume 15 - the latest volume currently available in English, so I won't be able to relate to anything beyond that.

1
ooo247•

"press snooze to start" what an irony

1
unknownmatOP•

I think you might have posted to the wrong forum, you might want to double-check.

1
ooo247•

No no no. He was awaken in another world right? Satou pendragon, is. So he literally "snooze" to "start" his other world journey. And it's also how yen press introduced it

1
unknownmatOP•

I see. What's the irony?

2
ooo247•

Start and snooze are opposite, when you tall about computer, right?

1
billyboi356•

I dislike: the entire series now.

I thought aight cool a series that shows how programmers are overworked and mistreated nice.

Then i watched and they added the bane of all good anime. A loli. I now will never view this again.

1
unknownmatOP•

I assume you're talking about Arissa. FWIW, she never becomes sexualized like she might have been in other series. I, too, am not really comfortable with the sexualization of young girls in isekai, and I find Death March's treatment of the girls under Satou's protection fairly refreshing.

1
billyboi356•

Did you watch the episode they were introduced

1
unknownmatOP•

It's been a while (I'm an LN reader now). But my recollection is that Arissa tried to seduce him, but was summarily rejected and he forbid her from doing anything like that again. And that was about was far as it ever got.

Am I missing something?

1
billyboi356•

In the anime i watched it was literally almost a sex scene. Maybe its just the animators being pedos but idk.

1
Darknemo20000•

I like the world building and most characters who feel alive.

I dont like how saitou usually ignores demon worshippers or potentially connected to them activites unless it becomes too big of an issue which it always does and had he acted sooner he could have avoided the issue in much easier way.

The way he hides himself seems over the top at times. He goes oh if they would know my strength it would be troublesome as he would get into politics and stuff BUT he sytill gets involved in politics and stuff just now has to jump between multiple identities anyway. Seems very counterproductive since the trouble and length he takes to hide his identity and strength overshadows the benefits and he still has to deal with issue anyway just in much more roundabout away.

1