Do or do not, there is no should

Semantics

In the movie Amistad, some characters (an American and a translator) have this exchange :

  • That's what you said!
  • All right! Yes, I said it! I said it, but I shouldn't have. What I should have said...
  • I can't translate that.
  • You can't translate what?
  • I can't translate "should".
  • There's no Mende word for "should"?
  • No. Either you do something, or you don't do it.
  • What I meant to say, what I meant...
  • Not in the way you mean it.
  • Try and understand me.
  • "Meant" is the same as "should". You're misunderstanding the language.

Is this true for Mende? Or more broadly, are there languages that don't have the concept of "should have"?

Posted Feb 15, 2022, 6:26 AM UTC

215
Ismoista•

I dunno Mende, but modals rarely have a direct translation in other languages, so when translating them you tend to use grammatical equivalents.

Even though it could be true that a certain language doesn' have a word for "should", it most definitely does not mean it doesn't have a way to express the concept.

32
sparksbet•

I can definitely see a language lacking a clear translation for "should" and having a cultural taboo or something that makes it difficult to clearly communicate the concept. And there are certainly attestations of linguists claiming that such-and-such language's speakers don't communicate X concept at all, even when reworded. But generally speaking, I'm extremely suspicious when linguists or anthropologists claim such things, since they tend to play into racist stereotypes of the people who speak those languages as speaking a language that is somehow lacking compared to most world languages.

With an expression that carried a lot more cultural baggage, like "sorry" or "thank you", I'd be more likely to believe that there wasn't a good way to communicate the concept at all. But just expressing a counterfactual like this? Even if I read it in a linguistics paper I'd be extremely dubious.

6
lp000•

Based only on the exchange provided, without any other context, if I was in this situation, my reply would be: "what is did was wrong/bad. if I did X things would be* better now. I regret my choice."

*if would be is not available then "if I did X then situation be better now"

Ismoista said in other languages they use other expressions to convey these sort of ideas. Russian has a word for should but not a word for "would" but the idea is expressed by using something like a "double past tense" e.g. "I would have liked to buy something" = "Я хотел бы купить что-нибудь" literally "I wanted was (to) buy something". Romance languages have a verb mood (sometimes called a verb tense) for the conditional.

Toki Pona is a fun experiment for considering how to phrase concepts.

8
ling_Q•

I don't know about this language but in Mixteco, to translate the concept of "should", the adjective for "good" is used and then the comparative suffix (ie: "more", "-er") is added to it, and then you just use a clause as normal, so word for word it would translate to English like "better you eat beans" ("you should eat beans").

1
yutani333•

it would translate to English like "better you eat beans" ("you should eat beans").

English itself has the construction "<subject> better <verb>" with a similar but more specific meaning.

1