Source
r/OffGrid•
argyleaf

[advice request] large nearby parcel, many complications

My wife and I live in town in NH. We own our house (a duplex) and have got a line on a raw land parcel 17 minutes and 3 right turns (including leaving driveway) away.

It has many of the things we want:

  • brook (on property line)
  • long range views
  • direct access (well from the town maintained road)
  • south east facing
  • price is doable

But there are also some real challenges:

  • the driveway has a wetland permit and needs some big money work and it is expiring in a couple years. Crossing the wetland portion has been quoted at near 100k. The rest of the driveway was roughed in eons ago but has since returned to grass and hemmed in by second growth trees
  • ledge is visible in many places on the property which could complicate well, septic, foundation, and driveway construction, but we don’t
  • the forest has not been well managed
  • there is a lot of “partially hydric” soil based on the town maps
  • power and internet are at road but the cost to bring them in (eventually) is high. This makes potential resale less palatable
  • it is on a state highway (also a good thing) and there is some (low to moderate) road noise on the portion of the property equal in elevation or above to the road

At the price that we are negotiating it will be about $2400 /acre. We can pull off the purchase financially and still maintain most of our lifestyle, though to make the down payment we are going to tap some of the principal of our Roth IRAs. However in a couple years when the driveway would need to get started the financial calculus becomes more difficult (though still manageable). And this is all before we get to building cabins and, maybe, eventually a house that makes use of the big view.l in retirement.

We are ok with this being a strictly recreational property for different lengths of time: me for probably 5-8 years before we build an offgrid cabin (in the meantime we put in a latrine, some tent platforms, maybe a woodfired sauna) then in 20 years (when kids are off at college and beyond) build the roadway up to the view and a modest but modern house. My wife is less convinced that she wants to build anything past cabins there. She is not even sure putting in the wetland driveway makes sense, we are allowed to cross on foot or occasionally in a vehicle, and we could just cart in any materials we need.

Having never done this before I wanted to get your wise takes on the subject. The property market is tight where we are and really the only reason we have a shot at this is all the issues the property has.

I will gladly take any advice and perspective you all have.

Thanks!

Posted Mar 16, 2022, 12:00 AM UTC

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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argyleafOP•

The permit is already written and the plan has been drawn up and approved. It does lapse in a couple years but my read is that it can be easily extended for another 5 by filing a form, but it may take an Army CoE or wildlife assessment.

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Paupy•

I would be concerned that environmental and land use regulations might change threatening future permit extensions.

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debridezilla•

You should have an exploratory talk with your country permitting people about this. In my state, anyway, wetlands permits are harder to get every year. A road or bridge that passed 20 years ago is often not permittable now. Once it degrades past usability, you literally cannot get there from here.

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SamGropler•

Run, don't walk, far away.

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aleigh9812•

+1. The wetlands.

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argyleafOP•

What scares you most? Everything?

If it wasn’t on the order of 100 acres, close by, and in our price range we would be. You add those together, adjust your expectations downward for what you can build when you can do it and it doesn’t feel so bad.

Then again we have been going back and forth on this place for a week so it’s not all rainbows and roses.

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SamGropler•

The driveway and the wetlands.

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ccnnvaweueurf•

Wetlands are poor areas for foundations too.

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porchlightofdoom•

The wetland is a big issue. You may not get that permit renewed. You may also not be able to build it with the permit. Dealing with government environmental regulations can be a major issue. You do the pre-construction environmental impact study and they find traces that the endangered 3 anus mud sloth lived there and now you can't build anything.

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Rickles_Bolas•

To add on to what people are saying, the wetland stuff is a nightmare. It will also affect any forestry/management plan you attempt. You’re in NH, there’s land everywhere. Keep looking

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argyleafOP•

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. After tromping around on it this morning during "rush hour" (whatever that means in the context of NH) we are passing on the property.

We were probably naïve to think that we could manage the build on the wetlands. This will be our first purchase of raw and/or recreational land so it was good to reset perspective with you all.

When we find something else I will probably come back to you all for advice.

Thanks again for helping us avoid what would surely be a horrendous mistake.

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ccnnvaweueurf•

I would never by land with much wetlands.

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argyleafOP•

Out of 122 acres there were less than 5 identified as wetland by a Army Corps of Engineers and field biologist survey. Unfortunately that was the only obvious access point.

Despite all the issues with wetland traversal we had talked ourselves through that, it was the Highway noise that drove us away from it.

The road noise is more of the straw that broke the camels back than reason enough on its own. The wetland definitely played a major part.

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ccnnvaweueurf•

Road noise is something I don't notice when I first move somewhere but then more and more and more I notice it over time.

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argyleafOP•

I noticed it when first time we walked the property. I commented on it but I have a streak in me that seeks platonic ideals of what I want so I tried to temper it by saying it was roughly equivalent to the public woods we currently frequent.

After repeated visits, however, it became clear to me that the 50 mph roadway that spanned 225 degrees of exposure, almost all of which was at the same or lower elevation than the property and hence having no impediments to reaching the property, was far different that the residential street and 15 degrees of 40mph road the public woods face.

As an aside, the US DOT has acool GIS map for road and plane noise. If nothing else the process of looking at this place has given me a great appreciation for the advances in GIS software. You can get almost anything if you look hard or are willing to pay a nominal fee.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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argyleafOP•

It is a place that is very easy to dash in love with. We, however, decided to pass due to road noise and it is still on the market. No regrets on that decision.

With each day the property becomes less valuable as the permit’s life is expiring and making it harder for someone to want to buy it. If the seller came back to us below our original offer we may (MAY) be convinced to take another look.

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minutemaid101•

You should stop commenting. Your comments are not helpful

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Halo22B•

I'd say no just from the noise/lack of privacy aspect due to the proximity of the highway. Your Wetland permitting requirement is also pretty painful from a cost and resale perspective.

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argyleafOP•

It is a place that is very easy to dash in love with. We, however, decided to pass due to road noise and it is still on the market. No regrets on that decision.

With each day the property becomes less valuable as the permit’s life is expiring and making it harder for someone to want to buy it. If the seller came back to us below our original offer we may (MAY) be convinced to take another look.

1