MossyHarmlessMV-22•

Copying and pasting my comment from the r/Military thread before this post really gets going.

  1. There's an alarming number of people who seem to think the V-22 today has a bad safety record. While the earliest models did have a number of high-profile crashes with tragically loss of life, the operational history since the redesigns and training improvements do not bear this myth out. Per flight hour, the V-22 is just as safe, if not safer, than rotary-wing aircraft of comparable size. The vast majority of mishaps since the V-22 went operational have been attributed to pilot error, not flaws of the aircraft.
  2. The V-22 can in fact autorotate or glide like an airplane, depending on the angle of the nacelles (+/- 60 degrees is what determines which procedure we use). It does not do either particularly well. The rotors are low-inertia and have extremely high disk-loading, i.e. it is not an efficient rotor. The wings are relatively stubby, and the body is not exactly what one would describe as streamlined. You're descending out of the sky rapidly, don't get me wrong, but you're not a bathtub falling straight down, either.
  3. It's worth noting that there are other emergencies (icing, degraded drivetrain) that can turn deadly in a V-22 besides engine failure(s). Ability to autorotate or glide may not have been as central of a factor as some might think. That's even assuming it was an aircraft fault, not pilot error or even some external factor like a drone or no-radio civilian aircraft being where they weren't supposed to be. And we don't even know that much yet.
  4. The V-22 is not a janky rotorcraft flown only by the Marine Corps since it's the poorest branch. The Air Force Special Operations Command flies them for special operations infil/exfil and resupply. The Navy flies them for Carrier Onboard Delivery. The Japanese Self-Defense Force is replacing/has replaced their CH-47 Chinooks with them.
  5. We will not know what exactly happened for months, if not upward of a year. Aircraft mishap investigations take a long time, and all we can do as fellow servicemembers or even the general public is trust the Aviation Safety Officers and other members of the board to explore all the facts and determine causal factor(s). And hope the rest of the V-22 community can learn from it. It does no one any good to speculate.

I say all of this not necessarily to shut down discussions, but to educate people about what is still a relatively misunderstood aircraft. With that said, there is a pretty decent chance I went to flight school or the FRS with one of the pilots. And I ask that people at least show some respect.

37
SarcasticShaft•

Thank you for this. I'm glad someone was willing to look at the facts instead of making uneducated remarks.

3
propellhattOPAFIS-officer•

Thanks for the excellent input. My condolences for losing four colleagues, this unfortunately shows that aviation is and always will entail some degree of risk, and military aviation often encountering more risk factors than most civilian operations. Ten years ago, during the same exercise, a RNoAF Hercules did a CFIT just across the border on the Swedish side, killing the crew of five.

I find the Osprey an extremely impressive machine, the accidents early on, I don't know the details enough, other than the one where the control inputs were reversed, but usually there are a bunch of factors leading up to an accident, and I would bet internal processes at Bell/Boeing were less than excellent. Especially on the Boeing side, they showed the civilian world how nonchalant management were with regards to safety vs pushing out the 737max or Dreamliner before they were properly ready.

I've a question: how does the Osprey fare in icing conditions? I would expect the rotors to have proper deicing, but how susceptible is the aircraft in general?

1
SteveCorpGuy4•

This deserves more upvotes

1
propellhattOPAFIS-officer•

TL;DR: Earlier tonight, at about 1700 UTC, a USMC MV-22 was supposed to land in Bodø after a training flight but failed to return. At 20:17 UTC, the Rescue Coordination Centre of Northern Norway reports wreckage having been located in Gråtådalen, a mountaineous area. The weather was reported as being poor, and the risk of avalanches in the area complicates rescue efforts. The condition of the crew of four is currently unknown.

16
bleaucheaunx•

Damn! That poor crew. I really hope the snowmobile rescuers find them alive!

7

The valley where the wreckage was found is a popular low-level route in that area. Very narrow, steep sides and sharp turns.

2
propellhattOPAFIS-officer•

Update: all four crew members have been found, none survived the accident. We'll have to wait and see what the results of the investigation will conclude, but were I to hazard a guess at a hypothesis, the weather and the terrain makes a CFIT seem like one of the more likely scenarios. I've no idea how the Osprey fares in icing conditions, though.

2
TheManWithAName2•

I find it somewhat eerie that this accident happened almost 10 years to the day when a Hercules crashed in the nearby region during a Cold Response military exercise.

2
EVE_Trader•

Any comments on how good is bad guys dying?

-8
StuckinSuFu•

What?

2
healing-souls•

This just might be the shittiest aircraft ever built. Can we please end this fiasco of a program?

-36
mangeface•

It’s one of the best aircraft the Marine Corps operates. It had a bad rap sheet early on but most accidents involving the aircraft are attributed to air crew error.

22
MossyHarmlessMV-22•

You should probably do even an ounce of research before peddling blatant bullshit like that.

10
nyc_2004•

Ah yes, the shittiest aircraft that is actually suited to the niche that the marines needed and actually works.

7