r/rpg•
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What to do when one player misses every roll?

My session went reasonably well last night, except that one player missed every roll he made. We were playing a more narratively-based system, which was not this particular player's first preference, so I was trying to be mindful of keeping him engaged. He did in fact take the extra step of describing his attacks in some detail, which was good, but his poor rolls meant that he never actually connected, and the other players did the heavy lifting as far as the combat and every other skill roll were concerned. I did "fudge" the monster turns by drawing out the combat to give him more opportunities and took "inefficient" (but narratively plausible) monster turns make sure that he wasn't immediately KO'd, but the other players managed to dispatch the monster and get all of the other successes taken care of before he managed one good roll.

There was one opportunity I had to give him the spotlight to use his skills to uncover some information, but I think I may have mistakenly undermined myself by bringing in another character to share that work.

My awareness of this situation only really took form while reflecting on the session. That is to say, I knew that he was missing rolls as the session progressed, but it didn't really dawn on me until later that he had missed EVERY roll, and that he seemed to be getting more passive as the session went on. I suspect that his session-long string of failed rolls took the wind out of his sails, that he came out of the session feeling decidedly un-heroic and that he hadn't really contributed anything. This particular game or system wasn't his first choice in the first place, and the session (the second of this game) may have convinced him that this wasn't the game or system for him.

Next time I'll try to make more of an effort to give him some spotlight time not dependent on rolling for any successes.

What do other GMs do when one player seems cursed by the dice for the whole session?

Posted Mar 25, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

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thomar•

Read up on "success at a cost" and "failing forward" in TTRPGs, it lets you make failures more interesting.

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lolnubomgwtfhax•

That pretty much sums it up. Failing an attack roll, especially in a narrative game, doesn't always mean a miss. The player can still hit and deal damage, but maybe they are hit in return. It keeps the character from looking like an incompetent fool just because a player forgot to pray to RNGsus

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contentsOP•

This is great! I can think now of ways I might have handled the big attack that he described in detail (and then missed by one on the die!). I'm kicking myself for not having done this! Next time!

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vaminion•

Talk to him before you go that route. If he's already not thrilled with the system, it's very easy for fail forward to feel even more punishing than a traditional failure.

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contentsOP•

Ah, that's a good point.

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Glennsof•

If a player is describing actions in detail (depending on the system) You might want to consider throwing in "Stunt Bonuses" (borrowed from Exalted). You give a bonus of about 10-30% or so if the player describes things decently --> epically.

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MASerra•

What do you do when players make every roll? Do you penalize them and say, "Listen, you are rolling too good."?

You need to do nothing. As a player, I played in a game where I didn't make a successful roll the whole game two months ago. It sucked, but that is the way things go.

If the focus of success in your game is totally dice dependent then you are going to have these types of issues. Try to move the focus into role-playing for some of the game where rolls aren't so important.

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VictorTynehttps://godproductions.org•

If the focus of success in your game is totally dice dependent then you are going to have these types of issues. Try to move the focus into role-playing for some of the game where rolls aren't so important.

Louder, please. For the people in the back.

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Aleucard•

It is one of the things that you just have to make peace with if you want to use RNG in your games; some days, the dice will just hate someone all session. You can try and mitigate it a bit by allowing more take-10 or even take-7 style "rolls", but if you introduce randomness into your game randomness will play merry Hell at some point no matter what you do. Just embrace the bullshit now and you can at least make it fun.

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GreedyDiceGoblin•

This is some of the best advice I ever took as a GM.

I dont need you to roll a die for a DC 5 climb check on a ladder. If it's raining and the ladder is slick? Okay, now you will make the roll, because its a bit more hazardous.

But really, rolls shouldnt dictate everything done.

You, as a bard, are not going to CHA your way into having a bartender give up his business and let you run it, so why would I have you roll just for you to hit a 20 and have me tell you 'yeah but no...'

GMs who arent doing this -- take note. The dice are great, but should not be universal arbiters of success or failure.

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fubenfumattie•

If it's raining and the ladder is slick? Okay, now you will make the roll, because its a bit more hazardous.

Even then I wouldn't ask for a roll unless the outcome would be interesting either way. Just because it's a somewhat more difficult action doesn't mean we should model that risk with a roll. "Okay, you slip but fortunately the ladder is still a ladder and now your pants are wet. You rolled your ankle but not enough to take actual damage. Try again?"

If the action is somewhat more hazardous than usual, I would narrate that to make it a bit more interesting/dramatic (can't pass up a good rainstorm!) But I'd still have them climb the ladder without a roll. "The rungs glisten as the nearly-sideways rain pelts your face. You squint through the squall and press on, one cautious step at a time."

TBH even that seems like a bit much for a ladder.

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StevenOs•

I dont need you to roll a die for a DC 5 climb check on a ladder. If it's raining and the ladder is slick? Okay, now you will make the roll, because its a bit more hazardous.

This is why 3ed brought in "take 10" to make those everyday checks without needing to actually roll for them. I think 5e uses something similar calling them "passive" uses. Somethings you should be so good or bad at you don't need to make a roll but then there is a big range of things that you should be good enough at to do with almost no risk of failure unless something is seriously off.

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mudbunny•

You laugh loudly (out of game), put the dice in the penalty box, give them new dice, and continue on.

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GreedyDiceGoblin•

This is why being a Dice Goblin as a GM is great.

My players always have myriad choices as to which clickety clacks look lucky, haha.

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newmobsforall•

We laugh about it. Any game adjudicated with dice includes in the probability space the chance to simply fail or roll crap every single roll for a session, and unless the game has some kind of mitigation mechanic for this like Fate points or such, you just have to lump it. Shit happens.

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PorterPirateCepheus Engine hacker•

I make sure the only thing people roll for are consequential actions. After that, it's just part of the game; the dice are there to provide adjudication and if we start ignoring the dice or fudging then we shouldn't be using dice.

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blucentio•

Is the player missing because they just got horrific luck on the rolls, or because their character is underpowered compared to the rest of the party? I'm guessing it was just bad rolls, but something to possibly look into if you're not positive. It also could be their character is better at others things and not so much combat, and if that's the case, maybe you can work in scenarios where their character can shine.

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this is one of the reasons I love for failure-based-advancement. Sure, it stings to miss rolls, but it stings less when you know you are building up whatever currency your system uses to make the character advance quicker (experience, etc.)

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contentsOP•

I'd never heard about this before. I see here that Dungeon World does this. Do you have a favorite system that uses this?

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I recall Call of Cthulhu using a system in a similar fashion. Basically, if you use a skill, you put a check mark by it. During downtime, you roll the skill roll and if it fails, you advance the skill. It means that the better you get at the skill, the harder it is to advance it.

It's not exactly the same, but it's in the same ballpark.

I like systems like Cypher that give the GM leeway to hand out exp for instances like this. My favorite system is Savage Worlds, and I like to hand bennies out to people who have a failure-streak (technically not related to advancement, but meta-currency makes the failure sting less).

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dsheroh•

Related to your Call of Cthulhu mention, Mythras augments that with a rule that, if you fumble (crit fail) a skill roll, then you automatically gain +1% in that skill at the end of the adventure.

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HavelokFinder of Games•

Burning Wheel. You literally cannot progress your character's skills if you don't fail.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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contentsOP•

Interesting! I'll take a look!

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nergaBurning wheel, d6, runequest, technoir•

No? Burning wheel is routine, difficult and challenging tests. Nothing about success or failure, since artha can let you pass a challenging test or through practice. Though torchbearer and mouse guard have success and fail tests.

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HavelokFinder of Games•

Mouse Guard abstracts the implied rule of BW. In BW, succeeding at higher difficulty tests is extremely unlikely (without Artha or special circumstances, as you've said) so the system is designed with failure in mind, which is essentially the same thing. If you do not attempt higher difficulty tests (and more often than not fail in the effort) you do not progress.

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Bold-Fox•

Monster of the Week does it as well.

It's not in every PbtA game, but it's not uncommon in PbtA games.

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fubenfumattie•

Most of the games in the Dungeon World family (Powered by the Apocalypse, or PbtA) use that mechanic.

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Aerospider•

Might depend on the system, but there are a few things you can do.

First, make sure that even on a failed roll the narrative still makes the character look and feel at least competent, if not outright awesome. A failed roll should never make them look like someone who's never tried the task before. Narrate how close they came to success, how they just missed through a twist of fate, how there was a complication nobody could have foreseen, how they struck several hard blows but the foe parried each one with increasing desperation.

Always fail forwards. Make sure the situation changes as a result of the attempt such that it is meaningfully different to how it would be had they not tried to do anything. Make them feel that they still had an impact despite not getting what they'd hoped for.

Allow a missed roll to still succeed, but with some horrible fallout or collateral damage. Something bad to sour the victory and complicate the situation. This will allow them to succeed whilst making things more interesting for the group as a whole.

Make consequences mechanically null but dramatically interesting. Use them to complicate their lives, possibly in ways that don't have an immediate impact but will come up later. Turn friendly NPCs against them, have some equipment start to fail or degrade, have them temporarily subject to an intense emotion that they can roleplay the hell out of. There are countless ways to make failure suck for the character but not for the player.

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contentsOP•

These are great suggestions. I need to put "Fail Forward" on a post-it note and stick it inside my GM screen.

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Smashed_Pumpkin86•

I've had sessions where a particular player was feeling the pain of unlucky rolls. Instead of trying to "go easy" on them, I leaned into it and had the enemies focus on attacking him. He got downed twice in the session but came away with everyone kind of pointing out "what a badass" having been dealt a raw deal and still survived. Obviously be careful not to make it seem unfair, I knew I wasn't going to kill his character in these encounters for various reasons (the party did not know this).

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[deleted]•

I wouldn’t fudge rolls just let it play out. Depending on the game the player may have hero points or bennies to help boost the roll. Maybe someone in their party has the ability to boost rolls through a bonus.

By fudging rolls now there’s a good chance you’ll cause confusion later on. Seriously, players keep mental notes on the consistency of the game. When that consistency fails it can be frustrating to players, and cause headaches for you as you try to explain the inconsistencies in your rulings.

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Glennsof•

Not much you can do. Sometimes the dice fuck you over. You ever have a really shit day? That's what the character had. What system was it you were playing that every roll failed?

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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contentsOP•

I do try to make sure something terrible/funny happens with a critical miss, but I hadn't thought of giving hero points at the same time. I'll keep that one in my pocket!

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17thParadise•

As a general rule I don't always treat failed attacks as 'misses' like you may well have missed, if the enemy was very nimble and actually dodged your strike, but I make a point of always presenting it as the adversaries competence rather than the players failure

And in general an attack that fails is more 'ineffective for some reason depending on the current fiction we're trying to support' so failing this seems less removed from the current events, treating it more like an interaction than a binary state

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meerkatx•

Bad days happen even to heroes.

Why does something need to be done?

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JulianWellpit•

What do other GMs do when one player seems cursed by the dice for the whole session?

Change the dice. There might be imperfections that favor a certain side and lower numbers.

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LanceWindmil•

Sometimes you just can't roll. Don't think about it too hard and try again next time.

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Ninjoddkid•

In a VtM session a few months ago, I managed to roll zero successes on 12 dice and then the more fails on a willpower reroll. 15 fails on something my character is expert in. Our ST allowed another player to save my mistake and we roleplayed it as a sign of the characters stress.

I found it hilarious. My dice hating me is a constant theme in our games but it doesn't bother me, what is important is the story.

In my opinion, it's something that happens. Law of averages your guy crits every roll next game.

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Slatz_Grobnik•

So I was in PF game once playing a ranged paladin type. The first two sessions I failed every attack roll. It sucked. I felt that I wasn't pulling my weight. We get to the sort of end boss at a dungeon and after a two missed shots I end up in a sort of narration of getting super-frustrated, and having a sort of in character crisis of confidence or faith, leading up to him closing his eyes to take the next shot. That's when I rolled a crit.

Totally changed the arc of the character both mechanically and narratively. Four stars; would roll shit again. It also never would have happened if the DM had decided to take pity on me and come up with something to make me feel cool and competent.

There's plenty of games out there where you're not beholden so much to rolls out of philosophy and game mechanics. The storygame method has been explained, but of equal note is things like Traveller, or games in the OSR sphere, where there's a greater emphasis on player-side description and discovery to avoid the roll ever coming up. If you plan a superior ambush, you win at it. No need to consult dice.

But if you're in something like that, what I think the course of action is to be engaging with the player and talking about what's going on, like what they see as the cause or what it means in some sort of storytelling sense. Get support and give it. Because the player probably has good ideas of what could be going on, and if you look at the dice as giving you a gift to play with, you can get places you'd never imagine.

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TheOnlyWayIsEpee•

I guess let the player know it was just some jammy dice rolls and you felt bad that they didn't get to do more. A casual chat out of game (just them) might get you some helpful feedback about what they'd like to do with the character.

What aspects of ttrpg does this player enjoy most? If he enjoys being in the spotlight you could always have it that the failures in the fight leads to him being separated from the others and managing to learn things or ultimately to achieve things that will help the whole party. Or perhaps he notices something about the attackers, or is told about an object on the ground that he might choose to pick up. Another idea is that he suffers an after-effect that's quite interesting, such as magic gone wrong, or contamination from the enemy creature leading to a temporary power. This is something that's been used in Buffy and Angel. He might overhear the enemy say something in a language he understands.

When we've had the same PC repeatedly mess up at the same kind of skill in the same context we've used it as a character trait. Sometimes it makes sense when you put together an explanation as to why the character is good/bad, lucky/unlucky, inexperienced/experienced or has issues over something, such as a fear. Botches really are a gift for the GM/DM in the way that they take the story off in an unexpected but fun and dramatic direction. Poor but meh rolls aren't so interesting. So perhaps a fumble or success reflects an existing character trait, skill or weakness. It could be added to the character sheet. Or maybe it is the start of something new if the player decides that their character is concerned, scared or pleased about what happened in the precious session and gives them food for thought. They might decide to improve their equipment, work on their skills or it might make them more determined to prove themselves or scared next time. Of course, that's a player call.

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contentsOP•

That really sparked some ideas! Many thanks!

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TheOnlyWayIsEpee•

It's easy for me to think of these things at leisure procrastinating on reddit, but of course mid-session with everything happening at a pace and everyone wanting to talk and act at once, it's so much harder.

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Insanus_Vitae•

Everybody at the table, the person in question included, that sometimes there are bad rolls, and it being our chance, is more than likely to be like that only very rarely. Remind him that it was just some bad rng and it's possible he could succeed all his rolls next session.

It's all chance. If the game were rigged, that would be something else entirely, but I'm sure he knows it's not, and one night of bad rolls shouldn't detract from the larger game

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