Source
r/LateStageCapitalism•
edrerai

Over 9 000 000 people die each year as a consequence of Capitalism, Or why i'm traditional Communist.

Communism is said to have killed over 100.000.000 people over the span of just 70 years. In modern political discourse, this claim is used as the main catchphrase against the supposedly brutal and authoritarian tyranny of socialism in the 20th century. - the first thing your fellow liberal or conservative will fire out when they hear the word “socialism” or “communism”. Like most other regurgitated anti-communist catchphrases, this one contains no intellectual honesty or coherent argumentation. This monolithic number in particular can be traced back to the “Black book of communism: Crimes, Terror Repression” from 1997, which serves as somewhat of a criminal record of socialist states and is there to remind young leftists about the terrors of communism and why that system is destructive and outdated, hence making a passive-aggressive assertion that capitalism has no alternative, that we have reached the "end of history" and that all those who are looking for a systemic change at the foundations of our modes of production and social relations - are either confused wimps who live with their parents or malevolent lunatics. In the second part of the video, I will present to you my own research and analysis, using similar, yet more honest logic and therefore conservative estimates, to calculate a comprehensive death toll of the capitalist system, as a comparison to the allegations which are thrown at socialism. Therefore I’ve taken the liberty to try the impossible - to count ALL the deaths by capitalism since the industrial revolution to modern day.

​

​

​

Death toll of Capitalism - YouTube

Posted May 4, 2022, 11:55 AM UTC

9823
Zemirolha•

And counting, what is most important. Putting Central Planning on private hands has consequences... It should be public and full of transparency. Our colective goal and construction.

12
Swarrlly•

Hakim also have a very good video that goes over how wrong the black book is. https://youtu.be/ClLKm8Q8Pns

5
Daggertooth71•

"Supposedly"...?

You mean, historically accurate.

Look, I agree with you that capitalism is shit, and that if we use the same metric as those who like to quote the (known to be fabricated and inaccurate) black book, it has killed billions since its inception, but...don't deny historical facts. The human rights abuses and atrocities perpetrated by these authoritarian state regimes are well recorded, not "supposed". There's literal evidence, ffs.

Which isn't to say overt capitalist nations and globalist corporations haven't also done such. We all know about Leopold in the Congo, Coca Cola hiring death squads in Columbia, the Haymarket Affair, etc

Just saying: if you want people to take you seriously, don't go around claiming historical facts, like the fact that Soviet Russia was a brutal authoritarian state regime, are "supposed". It makes you seem kinda loony.

2†
Tryignan•

Many of the deaths attributed to communism are because of natural disasters. Should we blame capitalism for all the deaths caused by earthquakes and tsunamis?

17
Swarrlly•

The black book also counts nazis killed by the Soviets during ww2 and the trials after. The book also counts people not having children as deaths. That book is complete garbage.

20
Daggertooth71•

This aspect of the post is understood.

Both of the so-called "Black Books" are inaccurate because of this.

5
edreraiOP•

Supposedly is not about their brutality since the debate is not about their nature but the mass or the scale of it and it's used to describe their supposedly "socialist" status.

10
Daggertooth71•

Ah, I see.

Then I have misinterpreted what you meant. I apologize. I still agree with your main point.

3
edreraiOP•

The thing is if you watch the video ( which is not mine ) is mostly a thought exercise on how easy is to put the blame on something without taking into consideration the many factors ( because saying Mao killed 20 000 000 is much more easy than looking into the conditions that made the tragedy happen) that influence not only the conditions but also the decisions. And the beauty of socialism is that whatever many believe is still a work in progress since its goal is not just to make everyone fat and rich but to help humanity evolve in as a moral as possible way .

9
ViennaWoods•

Sorry where was the communist nation state that killed so many?
Those states were Dictatorial command economies, not communist nation states.
There has never been a communist nation state.

It does not surprise me at all that in a Dictatorship people suffer and die. Where was the communism? Also, people today think Russia is communist, proving my point.

5
Rylett_•

What do you mean by "authoritarian"? All states are "authoritarian" by nature. The purpose of states is to oppress a class/classes to the benefit of another class/classes. We currently live in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie while we would like to be living in a dictatorship of the proletariat.

"Authoritarian" measures such as police and state surveillance are necessary to defend the revolution and any socialism attempted without these measures was easily destroyed. This does not mean there weren't missteps and excesses in 20th century socialism but the material conditions faced by these experiments limited their options.

The "authoritarian" label most often is used to shut down any discussion on the positive results of 20th century socialism. If we allow the narrative to be shaped by those who discount "authoritarian" socialism then we lose all of our greatest examples in the Socialist tradition.

2
Daggertooth71•

I agree, a state is authoritarian by nature. Some moreso than others.

Disagree with the rest of your post.

1
AutoModeratorMOD•

##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭

###⚠ Announcements: ⚠

###Any post that makes a claim must have a RELIABLE source or explanation in the comments by OP. All screenshots must have the original source (whether article, Tweet, TikTok, video or any other social media) linked in the comments by OP immediately. Breaking this rule will result in a temporary ban. See this post for more info.

###NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts

Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines.

###Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!

Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren

###Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for socialist discussion.

LSC is run by communists. We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.

This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1
PolandIsAStateOfMind•

killed over 100.000.000 people

That's bullshit btw, even the authors of that book admit they were manipulating statistics and their methodology was extremely biased.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
edreraiOP•

Who talked about USofA?

1
comeallwithme•

Communism doesn't work. Don't jump from the fryer into the fire.

-2
edreraiOP•

Mid 15th century peasants thought the same about capitalism.

1
waden_9•

No just no… communist Russia and China currently killing their own and neighboring countries.

-2
edreraiOP•

This is such an out of topic comment ( without even looking into the accuracy) that I'm speechless.

1