Hi guys,
Anyone know how [[Syncopate]] or [[Meathook Massacre]] is counted for the [[Obscura Ascendancy]] manacost bonus? As I understand it the card cares about the played card's 'mana value' and not 'mana spent' and hence 'Disturb' costs or 'Kicker' costs aren't factored in. I wonder how that works for pay X spells.
Posted May 6, 2022, 3:17 PM UTC
When a spell is on the stack, its mana value counts X as whatever value the player chose for it. Anywhere else, mana value treats the X as 0, though abilities and effects on the card that reference X directly still use the value chosen.
If you need a mana value 4 spell to trigger Obscura Ascendancy, you could trigger it by casting The Meathook Massacre with X = 2.
abilities and effects on the card that reference X directly still use the value chosen
Nit: this basically only applies to enters-the-battlefield triggers/replacements, because the card does not know what X is once it's on the battlefield.
107.3m. If an object's enters-the-battlefield triggered ability or replacement effect refers to X, and the spell that became that object as it resolved had a value of X chosen for any of its costs, the value of X for that ability is the same as the value of X for that spell, although the value of X for that permanent is 0. This is an exception to rule 107.3i.
Outside this specific case, a permanent doesn't have a value of X, even if there's an X in one of its costs.
It should, the X value is part of the cards normal casting costs so affects the mana value. Disturb and kicker are alternate (disturb) and additional (kicker) casting costs so don't affect the cards mana value
Hey thanks, that was a great and concise explanation.
Also this means maybe there is hope for playing Obscura after all.
https://twitter.com/kushiro_mtg/status/1520554879852638208?s=20&t=diCF2xRvgJOk7sHl6v-SQg
I had a lot of fun with this pile Kushiro made. Although I don't think the commitment you have to make to start leveling ascendancy is worth the payoff.
Yeah, if it worked with alternate costs, raffine's guidance plus rite of oblivion would make it actually playable.
As it is, the card is super crap.
I was testing this out yesterday. Spells with X in them will count as the final mana value spent on the card. It made [[March of Otherworldly Light]] a solid removal spell when u need to trigger a certain mana value.
March of Otherworldly Light - (G) (SF) (txt)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey thanks. Good to hear other people are fidgeting with this card too.
I take it because you are using the white March spell that you are looking at Obscura's overlap with Hallowed Haunting?
I think the hardest part is on the low end though. The player essentially needs to play a 1cost spell on turn 4. How do we make that effect the boardstate besides the mana cost. I believe [[Rafine's Guidance]] and [[Witness Protection]] are obvious choices, but maybe [[Secrets of the Key]] has value too.
Note that Guidance and Secrets of the Key will always be MV1, so they can’t do ‘double duty’ for Ascendancy.
Alternate costs have no bearing on Mana Value.
Raffine's Guidance - (G) (SF) (txt)
Witness Protection - (G) (SF) (txt)
Secrets of the Key - (G) (SF) (txt)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I am f2p and do not own Hallowed Haunting, so I have not tried that. Currently, I have it slipped in into my Azorious Spirits decks.
As you said, it's hard to start off. I initially thought using spells like [[spell pierce]] or the 1 mv bounce spell (forget the name), but they're a bit too situational. Currently my one drop is [[lunarch veteran] and March.
Right now, I'm underwhelmed by the card. It's difficulty in getting started requires a deck with a solid card draw engine, and in the end all you get is a situational token generator that eventually turns into a win-more tribal anthem that becomes pointless if they remove your tokens. Maybe it works better an alt-wincon in a control deck. I'd be happy to hear others input.
spell pierce - (G) (SF) (txt)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call