why West care about Greeks more than others
i feel like West dont care about balkans as much they care about greeks,why is that whats making them special ?
Posted May 20, 2022, 6:12 AM UTC
550
Our relationship with the West is an abusive one.
The westerners only care about ancient Greece because they consider it their foundation but they hold modern Greece in great contempt.
This is what makes us special. We are such an eyesore to them, tainting their ideal ancient Greece with our modern existence. It pisses them off, because they have to have us on their western clique, because we are Greece after all, but they can't stand us. We are just not the Greece they want us to be.
31
Being a Greek is carrying a big bag on your back, always the burden of having to be great, never quite can be themselves.
10
More like they hold the East Roman Empire in contempt, they only want Greece to be their ideal one which is a Western vassal state that is only the inheritor of the ancient Greece, which was the mother of Western civilization, but not the East Roman Empire which was once thier greatest rival. (and that's the reason why the Bavarian king chose Athens, which was a tiny town, instead of Nafplio which was more suitable as a capital, to be the capital)
P.S. In my opinion, Greece is both the inheritor of the East Roman Empire and ancient Greece
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[deleted]
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If you greek why you not wise philosopher @-@ clearly turk /s
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They are discovering their roots they are all Greek göd sperm
Seriously though, they don't, they only care about ancient Greece. Also care in what sense? Political, I don't want to get into a historical debate about who colonized the Dodecanese and Cyprus....they probably loved us so much they tried to colonized us...
17
I see you are from turkey so ill give you how I see things from my perspective.
Edit: FYI, this is not me shitting on Turkish people or telling you “turkey is the bad guy”. This is my analysis of the situation. If its too mush for you we can talk about all the good and cool things that I believe turkey does.
Greece embraces the western narrative (of been the start of western civilization )and plays it low by just existing and becoming “the Hawaii” of the West while Turkey want to be a regional independent power tries to Reinforce its narrative globally because it can.
Any country that wants to be a regional power and it can, it will get criticized depending threw its actions. Greece does not do that, by default its the yes man of the EU and NATO and the only time it got a backslashed is when it did not embraced without question EUs/NATOs politics, and that would be the first 6 months of the SYRIZA party in 2015.
Now, all of that dont mean the EU or America cares more about Greece, despite what your country wants you to believe.
The way I see it Turkey is a well establish, successful and strong spoiled brat that when it does not go its way it complaints makes noise, points figure on other countries shit to make thinking like by pointing other peoples mistakes/shit it will make its own look less shit.
I will give you an example. Turkey (despite why its wants that, not the subject )wants better weapons, PKK (again not our subject th nature of PKK and how its conected with the Nordic countries)to be recognized internationally as an terrorist group. Does not get it. What does it do? Vetoing Sweden and Finlands NATO membership. What does it get? Headlines on the news, Exposure of its narrative and A meet up with Washington and tryin to find a silver lying for Turkey (cause that what a veto can do for you)to let Sweden and Finland in. Probably will get the weapons but not the PKK recognition but it does not matter. As long you can get one thing you can keep fight for the other. After all, if there is anything that turkey does better that anyone is playing the long game.
“But Greece will get our funny planes!?” You may say. So? Let’s be real. Who has the better weapon power in the balkans threw all history? It’s turkey, despite been in the EU etc, Greece economy is worst that tukrey and even if the throw all its GTP for better weapons, its will never caught up with turkey. Of course Turkey does not want you to know that, all you need to now it’s greek oligarchs allows Russians to sell oil and gass and Greece will get “turkey's weapons”.
Turkey is not the victim, it’s the Opportunist of the political game. If it gets any backslash fro the west or anyone, it will use it veto or whatever power it has to achieve that while it makes sure it does not have any opposition internally to its narrative either.
I will give you an other example as a Cypriot. Despite who is right it the political situation in Cyprus, what does the mainstream Anatolian Turk KNOW OR HEARD about Cyprus? 1963 Massacres, 1974 heroic rescue of the Turkish Cypriots and securing the peace, 1982 establishment of TRNC and 2004 the last chance the Greek Cypriots to solve the cyprus problem. Those 4 events represent the way i summoned it enhances Turkeys narrative for the Cyprus problem and taksism ( Dividing Cyprus between Greece and Turkey), which is Turkey official position since the 1950s. But here is the thing, no one knows or is allowed to have any empathy in Turkey about the Cypriot identity or the hard work that’s put, not only by both greek Cypriots or Turkish Cypriots for a solution, but also from the UN. Despite what you now about Cypriots, here is Rhetorical question: how many people in Turkey know about the Gran Montana talks? And if they do why they keep presenting 2004 as the last chance for the Cyprus problem to be resolved? Why Turkey (and maybe Azerbaijan, i dont know) is the only country in the world that calls “The republic of Cyprus” as the “Greek Administration of South Cyprus” ? How many people in Tukrey know Ismet Giuney or any othe Turkish Cypriot who is pro BBF? Does the mainstream Turk know what BBF even is? Why any Turkish Cypriot that wants Cyprus to be reunified is treaded like a “Ungrateful” or a “Traiotor”? How many people know that in the European Parliament the is a Turkish Cypriot and wants Turkish to be recognized as an official language of the EU as it is already co-official with greek in the Republic of Cyprus.
Having the context on the common narrative of the Cyprus problem in Turkey vs intentionally, you have a country that controls the narrative to its people by choosing what information is allowed to be know in the mainstream while complete opposite to its narratives you have, either you go to jail or be despite by the common people and now we go to yourquestion: Why does the west cares more about than Greece from others. Here is the answer.
Because Turkey wants you to believe it does while in reality, no one really cares about Greece.
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Wow great narrative man, respect & greetings from TR!
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Much appreciated komsu
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Great comment. I don’t know much about Cyprus conflict. What do you think about relation of Britain and US on island. There is a strong view, US and England never wanted Cyprus to be united. They knew Greek Cypriots gonna refuse Annan Plan. They did this purposely to have more control on Mediterranean sea. Cyprus is geopoliticaly most important island in the world rn. who can control Cyprus they can control all mediterranean area. There are still British military bases also i won’t be suprise if there are NATO or US have bases too.
edit:don't mind the kid under that comment.
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Nesi iyi yorum aamk, Türkiye'de gerçek hayatta yunanlari sikleyen mi var, turkiye bizim yunanistani böyle gormemizi istiyormus, aneliz31 gerçekten
0†
Yunanistan'ın batı tarafından pohpohlandığı Türkiye'de gayet yerleşik bir kanıdır. Postu atan da Türk zaten, postu atan kişi de seninle aynı fikirde değil ki böyle bir kanının gerçekleğini kabullenerek sormuş.
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Postu atana demedim ki yorumu yazana dedim ben. Türkiye'de Yunanistan'ı takip eden küçük bir azınlık var, kendi kendine kafasında kurmuş saçma sapan.
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For Britain, it doesn't really matter for the Cyprus problem to be solved or not. As long as they have their bases, they still get what they want (by the way explaining nature of those bases as are the drawn on the map, secrets come pass those areas and do whatever they want as long as they don't enter the actual bases. )
American on the other hand it's a much more complicated thing. Dates back to the Cold war and one of the reasons America did not do anything in 1974, it's because they wanted to make sure Cyprus was on the West. Before Junda intervene and trying to reinforce enosis on the island, the first precedent of Cyprus Makarios was a leftist and america does not want a left winged person in power, risking one of the most strategically important Islands of the Mediterranean to fall to the hands of the Soviet Union.
Again turkey knows how to play it's cards and force its narrative. Not only they went to reassure peace on the island (as the first invasion, that only took Kyrenia and half of Nicosia, to stop the Greek Junda government to reinforce enosis, was legal according to 5he fist Constitution) but by intervene it's an unstable Greek government and secret government they stability to the US. Of course as we know Turkey cares more about Taksism than peace on the island and it was with the second invasion that took 1/3 of the island until today.
Back to America though, I will quote Makrios Drousiotis on this one. According to him, they want the island to establish an BBF solution for one reason. I don't want 2 NATO powers to fight each others and for that to happen you need a solution that will be accepted by Turkey, Greece and Cyprus and the closest to that is the BBF solution. Status quo (Cyprus staying in the same situation as it is right now) or a two state solution will only bring instability between Greece turkey and Cyprus and that will be a chance for Russia to enforce its influence on the island or Turkey or Greece, depending on the situation.
BBF by the way means "bi-communal bi-zonal federation". In other words, Cyprus still is an independent country but GCs and TCS have their own "zones" to live in ( not borders) they have the same political rights and routing presidential system ( 2 terms for Greek cypriots and 1 for Turkish cypriots) . It's basically the Anon plan to give you a better image but what turkey and Cyprus are fighting for it's on the details. Turkey still want the power to intervene to the island or have bases like the UK while Cyprus wants zero influence from turkey. 2017 Gran Montana talks was the closest on a solution and according to Cyprus at least, the main reason it was not settled it's because Çavusoglu was not ready to accept Cyprus demands on "zero influence from Turkey"
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Your narrative is a very twisted one, you don't actually know shit about Turkey. That's one of the most false analysis of Turkey i've ever read, don't behave like you know shit about us, you sound like an idiot from this side.
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Well you can tell me where you feel I am wrong of you want and we can talk about it.
I will appreciate it more from a stance like " you don't know me!".
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It doesn't matter what we tell you about ourselves, you already think you know our country better than us. But in summary you should know only a minority is interested in news about Greeks. Same with government, everyone has more important problems and simply don't follow the news about Greece. If there is a conflict with Greece then the government does something, and they don't even do it loud in domestics. So there is nothing they are trying to make us believe about you. Even if they did, public wouldn't be interested.
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If it doesn't matter what kind of conversation you see trying to have then and you waste your time with me?
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Philhellenism
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Because Greece is seen as the birthplace of Western/European Civilization.
Not just today, it's viewed as such for thousands of years. And to an extent, it is.
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It really isn't. Westerners are just trying to claim it to feel good about themselves
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Indeed, the birth of the West was with the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
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They don't
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They don't. Probably that's what they want you to believe in order to perpetuate our animosity. If somebody really cared about Greece we wouldn't have this dysfunctional and in massive debt state (since the creation of it). We wouldn't have the biggest unemployment rate within Eurozone and we wouldn't lose a good percentage of our youth population every year via the so called 'brain drain' process.
The 'West' is obsessed with the ancient Greco-Roman world. Modern Greeks are just 'customers' and if Greece wasn't part of West's interests we'd be thrown in a garbage bin.
The same could be said about Albania. I've heard other Balkaners complaining that West cares 'too much' about Albania etc (role of USA/ president Wilson in 20th century, NATO intervention in Kosovo war and so on).
As Lord Palmerstone said in the House of Common: 'We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.'
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We have been their little puppets since 1830
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They care about the location of Greece because they can control all Mediterranean and the middle East and of course because Greece has mineral resources. Thats my opinion as a Greek. They don't love Greeks neither Greece they like geopolitical structure of Greece
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Have you not read any history books?
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No i am türk,we dont read we write history /s
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Because most westerners have never read a history book or left their country and they assume Greece is part of the western civilization when in reality Greece created the eastern
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they like ancient Greece and probably like the nice islands, i mean who wouldn't, they dislike modern Greece tho
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West who is nouveau riche, needed countries like Italy and Greece to look more aristocrat
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Greece has always been an ally of the Western countries and was always alligning with their interests (sometimes to a fault). After all, this is why they helped us getting our independence from the Ottomans at first place. Especially after WW2 and the creation of the influence zones in the Yalta Conference, Greece was designated as "West", while the rest of the Balkan countries (except Turkey of course) were under communist rule thus passing to the influence of the Soviet Union, even though some of them broke ties with the Soviet Union afterwards. I believe this, along with Ancient Greece of course, set the foundations of why West today has some further interest in Greece than in the rest of the Balkan countries. When it comes to Turkey, i think the religion of Islam along with the more "middle eastern" kind of culture are more alienating to the West. This doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like you, it just means that they don't consider you one of their own. With that being said, i have to say that the West doesn't really care about Greece as much as you think it does.
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I also believe that Greeks, being much more sea oriented had greater interaction with Western Europe, even during the Ottoman era, when communication through land was difficult and slow.
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In germany we call greeks „ Pleitegriechen“
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Europeans call us "the spoiled children of Europe". They try to help us, according to their way of thinking and their interests, but they never ask or care of our opinion. They want us to remain "children", and to look up to them in awe. And for most of Greece's elite, this is the case.
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Lol, Europeans don't call us that, and we most definitely are not. It is only Turks and maybe some Balkan neighbours..
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they called us like this, at least in the 19th century
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So philhellenism and that Greeks got some help to gain their independence was "spoiling"? That sounds more like pro-Ottoman narrative, that Greeks were too selfish to acknowledge the tolerance of their masters. Greeks have used leverage by references to their past but in reality the Great Powers always played their game. First by keeping the declined empire alive and later terminating it through nationalisn. In the 19th century Greece was very weak and financially dependent, a protectorate.
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I don't judge the phrase, I just say that existed among European circles. Maybe there was an Ottoman influence, since this phrase appeared during the Crimean War - according to Kostas Kostis - when Greece wanted to join Russia against the Ottoman Empire, and France attacked the Piraeus port to prevent this.
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i thought it was only the Turks who called us that, never heard it being referred by others
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Η έκφραση «Κακομαθημένα παιδιά της Ιστορίας» αποτελεί μετάφραση της έκφρασης “Les enfants gatés de l’histoire”, και χρησιμοποιήθηκε από Γάλλους διπλωμάτες κατά την διάρκεια του Κριμαϊκού πολέμου (1856-1859). Νομίζω ότι αποδίδει πετυχημένα το πνεύμα μια χώρας, της οποίας μεγάλο μέρος του πληθυσμού πιστεύει ότι η πατρίδα του δικαιούται μιας ιδιαίτερης, προνομιακής μεταχείρισης, γιατί κάποιοι πρόγονοί του στο απώτερο παρελθόν δημιούργησαν τις βάσεις του σύγχρονου ευρωπαϊκού πολιτισμού.
For some context, during the Crimean War, Greece wanted to join Russia, and in order to prevent this the French invaded Greece and occupied the Pireaus port.
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"La Grèce ou l’enfant gâté de la Communauté"
https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/1992/03/CHICLET/44202
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[deleted]
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Europeans call us "the sick man of Europe" 😅 I think you have better one
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The "sick man of Europe" was the Ottoman Empire...
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And we are the successor of the ottoman empire?
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In a sense yes, but I hope you dont feel that way...
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Ancient Greece, huge tourist destination, Western allies during the Cold War. The latter applies to Turkey as well, but they're largely Muslims so Europeans who dislike Islam mostly see it as an alliance out of necessity.