Top Libertarian...casually accepts they're actually neoliberal?
Posted Jun 8, 2022, 6:00 AM UTC
6423
Ahhh yes - "I only want the government to do what it NEEDS to do for society" as opposed to everyone else, who thinks... oh, that's right - that the government should do what it needs to do for society. Libertarians think the government needs to enforce their indentured servitude contracts, and human beings think the government needs to provide a basic standard of living for its citizens like clean water and food without rat shit.
Also - bonus points to our Libertarian dipshit for being multiple layers of stupid and declaring "anarchism is when no government"
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As an anarchist, this shit pisses me off so much. Anarchism is a form of socialism.
5
Anarchism is when mad max
3
technically isn't anarchism a form of communism since communism shares Anarchisms lack of a centralized government while socialism does not?
Or are you using "socialism" the umbrella term in its traditional marxist origin, where "communism is just a higher form of socialism"? Because there's been some developments on that front philosophically speaking in the past century...
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Yes. Most anarchists are anarcho communists. There's a lot of different forms of anarchism, though. Except AnCaps. They can fuck off.
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Libertarians think the only legitimate use for government is the things they want the government to do for them
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The explaination of anarchism I seem to get is basically "government should not do bad things" so I'm not sure right-libertarians and left-anarchists are as different as they wish they were.
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Anarchism makes no perscription for how much government there should be. It dictates it should be structured horizontally, as opposed to vertically.
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Neo liberal continues to be a word that has lost any semblance of meaning. Wasn't Hillary Clinton considered a neoliberal? I don't think many would consider her particularly close to right libertarianism (taxes, guns, nanny state, etc).
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I usually associate the term with 1980s style laissez-faire/welfare-hostile administrations like Thatcher's and Reagan's, with the name carefully chosen despite having very little to do with contemporary liberalism, in the long tradition of right-wingers giving their movements dishonest and misleading names.
12
It's kind of like the analogy of fish having no concept of water since it's all encompassing. Largely speaking the western political zeitgeist post Reagan/Thatcher has been that of neoliberalism, which is to say that private markets should be the main force dictating goods and services, and governments should exist only to facilitate private markets rather than regulate or hamper them.
This is breaking down somewhat now with Trump/Desantis style politicians on the right having no qualms about using the government to punish businesses that don't support their political interests on the left, and the Bernie/Squad style politicians on the left expressing a more vocal skepticism for markets than previous democrats like Obama/The Clinton's. (To be clear Im not equating Trump and Bernie, except for the fact that they're both more vocally skeptical of free markets than Reagan or Bill "the Era of big government is over" Clinton).
But yes, Obama was largely neoliberal, as were both the Clinton's. But that's not to say they were right-libertarian. For instance most of Obamas policies (the ACA, Cap and Trade Carbon Credits, etc) are still largely market based rather than more direct government intervention like single payer Healthcare.
3
By this reasoning, Obama wasn't neoliberal either because people didn't think he supported those things, but the war profiteers went on unopposed and only the top marginal tax rate shifted a bit.
What I mean is yeah not many people would consider her close to right libertarianism, but they're mistaken.
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There are lots of popular low stakes (systemically, at least) issues neoliberals can hitch their wagon to in order to appease their base and win elections. Dems go things like higher taxes on the rich and gun control, while republicans go for abortion and lower taxes, but none of them will ever raise a finger against corporate hegemony.
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Libertarians should ask for an end to expensive foreign wars, but in practice never do
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War is very profitable.
Costly for the government. A waste of tax dollars. But that money doesn't just vanish. It goes into the pockets of some of the worst people in the world. I assume many of them would very much identify with US libertarian ideology.
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It's nice when people are honest about their lies
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Libertarians have the IQ of a '78 Buick Skylark.
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Excuse me, as a Libertarian I did very well on an IQ test I paid to take and I will remind you of this at every opportunity.
13
I'm very confused by that conversation.
Reactionary conservative = neoliberal = people who think governments are useful?
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Most right-libertarians will tell you the state shouldn't exist, and our society should be run solely by private interests & free markets. Neoliberals believe more or less the same thing, though they understand that some form of state is ultimately necessary to protect and justify private property.
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For those who wonder why they brought up bears as an example, it's because Libertarians took over a town in New Hampshire and proceeded to dismantle local government to the point that bears invaded the place.