No transfer points, shared cars and not even a working app: 'big bang' of public transport ends with a sizzle
demorgen.be/nieuws/geen-overstappunten-deelau...
demorgen.bePosted Jul 13, 2022, 5:58 AM UTC
3029
demorgen.beWhy is there always money for privatizing parts of our public services, but never enough money to properly fund it?
23
Because there's the hope that the costs of privatizing are one-time costs (or at least limited in time), while the costs to properly fund things are unlimited in time. Of course in practice it rarely works out this way for transport, but that's the theory.
17
Of course in practice it rarely works out this way for transport, but that's the
theoryideology/propaganda.
FTFY
6
Yesterday I had to take the bus for the first time in five years (Back when I studied at campus Groenenborger). Had to wait 80 minutes for a bus which should stop by every 30 minutes. Suddenly I remembered why I was so glad I didn't study at UA anymore with all their spread out campuses.
I'm very pro public transport (in theory), and not a fan of getting a car because of the costs if anything, but no way I would ever consider relying on busses for structural commutes ever again.
22
Unfortunately your opinion is the result of years of deliberate NVA/OVLD strategy to make De Lijn so awful people don't even want to use it anymore because it is so understaffed and underfunded, that one driver getting sick means an entire day's commute for hundreds is fucked.
Compare it to Brussels where the buses are rarely cancelled and generally reliable.
28
Sadly I don't have enough insight in national politics to be able to pin the blame.
3
[deleted]
1
Right.
I went to Forest National last week. Their own site suggested I park on a P&R, and take a tramline to the hall itself. It had a link to the MIVB planner site, with the correct destination filled out. However, the planner was horribly unclear. It started suggesting several other options, because the tramstop FN suggested was 600m walking from the entrance. Not a problem for me, but the planner thought it was - so it started spitting out many different options, and none of them were the one that FN had listed on their website.
Eventually, we figure out what tramline and which stop to take - because there was a large crowd all wearing shirts of the band we were going to see standing around.
Tram arrives, everyone gets on. Drive 2 stops, and security forces everyone off. They tell us to walk a few streets, where busses are waiting for us, because the tram won't continue on this line (I think - I didn't clearly hear what they were yelling).
We walk for a short bit, and get on the bus. Bus depart, and drives for about 2 minutes. Then it stops, and the driver starts chatting with another driver, in a bus that was driving the opposite direction. Someone told me the driver was asking for directions, but I couldn't hear it myself.
After a few minutes, the driver closes his window, pulls up to the side of the street, and tells everyone to disembark. Tram stop is a few streets away, he says. Nobody knows where or which way we're supposed to go. Some of us check our phones, and realize FN is only a 15 minutes walk away. So, the entire bus, a large group of people all wearing shirts with the same bandname on them, collective just walked. It was probably faster, too.
On the way back, we didn't even bother with public transport. We just walked back to our car. None of us wanted to fuck with that disaster again.
I want to support public transport. I think they should get more support. I am aware that most of the issues are due to lack of funding. But at the same time, how can I justify taking PT if it's such a clusterfuck? I don't mind a bit of extra travel time, but if it's twice or three times as long to go by PT than just by car, well...
1
Friendly reminder NVA has only been leading the flemish government since 2014. All the years before DeLijn was even shittier or just as shitty and was being led by socialists.
Public transport in Belgium has just been extremely underfunded for decades. This in combination with DL being responsible for entire flanders makes their business model impossible to properly invest in. All those extremely spread out houses in flanders make it impossible to make it profitable or efficient.
You compare to Brussels, but thats a city with extreme high density.
DeLijn needs to allow cities to arrange their own transport in my opinion. Because its in those places that public transport can reach an extemely high efficiency.
-5
't is vree raar hoe voor 2014 de bus in m'n ouders dorp ieder uur kwam toen ik naar school ging en nu maar 3 à 4 keer per dag. Ik zou da vroeger nie 'shittier' noemen. En dat geld voor alle dorpen rondom de regio waar ik woon. Ik kon initieel pendelen naar m'n werk die na 18 uur gedaan was. Nu niet meer. 18 uur laatste bus.
Zeggen dat NVA er niks van blaam heeft omdat het al altijd zo was is onzin. De Lijn is verslechterd in de laatste tien jaar. En NVA had er 8 jaar de tijd voor om het te veranderen. En daarvoor waren ze in Kartel met de CD&V die ook aan de macht waren....
Openbaare diensten moeten echt niet geprivatiseerd worden. Openbaar vervoer, energie, Gezondheid of educatie. Zou alles volledig de staat moeten voor z'n rekening nemen. Maarja 't kost te veel...
Beetje investeren in uw bevolking kost te veel...
2
Current public transport being bad is an argument for investing more in public transport, not against it.
Not saying that’s what you’re getting at, but people make this fallacy a lot. “It sucks the way it works now, why would we spend more money on it?”
2
Where did I say we should be investing less in it? Quite the opposite actually. It's just going to take a LOT to convince me to take the bus ever again for daily commutes (including airconditioning).
2
Don't forget to fill in the complaint form. They actually look at them.
1
Ik weet dat iedereen graag kritiek uit op het openbaar vervoer maar ik heb jaren de bus/trein genomen zonder grote problemen. Granted, zeer lang tussen een centrumstad (Leuven) en een kleinere deelgemeente, dus ik had aanbod genoeg qua treins en bussen. Nooit een trein geschrapt gehad, nooit zelfs vertragingen langer dan vijf minuutjes.
Bussen zijn.. ja. Bussen he. Daar zit klootjesvolk op en ik gebruik dat liefst alleen als het zo'n slecht weer is dat 40 km fietsen geen goed idee lijkt.
twee grote pluspunten van de voorbije jaren qua Delijn:
- veel bussen kan je nu in realtime volgen en dat werkt echt wel goed. Dat is het verschil tussen tien minuten staan bevriezen in de kou of gewoon tien minuutjes langer werken en dan net op tijd toch aan de halte staan
-met covid kon je achteraan opstappen = gedaan met agressieve reacties tussen de bestuurder en de passagiers. In mijn mind is het nooit de taak geweest van een buschauffeur om entree te controleren. Vele van die chauffeurs ontbreken ook de nodige sociale vaardigheden om met hun passagiers om te gaan. Het achteraan opstappen was een groot verschil in sfeer op de bus.
11
OV langs iedere mogelijke kant fucken, maar wel belastingsvoordeel voor grote, geïmporteerde, vervuilende pickup trucks! Thanks Vlaanderen!
7
Apps, taxis en deelplatformen klinken niet als goede vervangingen voor bussen op het platteland. Zeker als je met een oudere bevolking zit.
Dat het niet haalbaar is om 750m van elke vlaming zijn voordeur een halte te zetten snap ik ook, maar meer tramlijnen tussen gemeentes en busstops met fietsparkings lijken me dan zinnigere oplossingen te zijn dan het Vlaams platteland over te laten aan een privemarkt die er toch niet veel winst uit gaat kunnen of willen halen.
5
en niet vergeten dat taxi's reteduur zijn
10
Privatisation of public transport is never a good thing in my eyes. Even if it doesn't end up a horror story people will pay a lot more. In the UK I paid about 6£ for a single bus journey, from a private company (no other choice). Imagine paying 8€ for a one way trip on a De Lijn bus. People are already complaining for 2,5€
2
[deleted]
1
[deleted]
1
In steden zijn er iig wel genoeg bedrijven bereid om deelmobiliteit aan te bieden (soms wat teveel). Zoals zo vaak zijn Vlaamse steden weer een paar stappen voor op Vlaanderen.
2
Wie had dat gedacht, dat als je iets traag laat doodbloeden en er steeds minder geld aan uitgeeft, het dan geen goede afloop zou hebben :thinking:.
In welke wereld was dit nu ooit een goed idee.
Is dat niet gewoon een soort privatisering - en tegelijkertijd uitbreiding - van het concept van de belbus?
More or less it seems, tho expanding the belbus, which is a niche system with not the same broad utility as a regular bus, isn’t a replacement for the conventional system we’re all used to.
That's true! I'm curious how many (nearly) empty busses cross the countryside on a daily basis though.
True, but then again the option of them being there takes priority imo.
One of the big arguments car-minded people like to make is that they're masters of their own schedule and can go anywhere anytime they want, which is understandable. Now obviously it would be ludicrous to have busses pass everywhere every ten minutes in bumfuck parts of Flanders, but the hourly ones we currently have is already better than nothing. It allows you to go places without too much planning ahead and you "just" have to wait an hour if you miss one. Then again one could make the argument that a bus with plenty of room is better than a crowded one, and even that if there were *more* busses than there are currently in circulation, more people would be incentivised to take one.
I don't think many busses are empty the entire ride. Most lines have some busy points, but they can still be nearly empty 80% of the ride time.
Yes
De neo-liberale wereld.
No wonder people like their cars so much. Imaging having to pay exorbitant taxi prices everytime you go somewhere.