Facts: A) Upwork pays well (in the US). B) There is gender parity in freelance writer pay

Rates & Pay

Interesting study recently reported in Bloomberg on the gig economy in the US based on Upwork data. Two facts that leapt out at me:

A) The average hourly rate for US freelance writers on Upwork (who did more than 100 hours in the previous 6 months) is $50 per hour. The average hourly wage in the US, as of May, was $32 per hour.

So for all those who like to kvetch about how poorly paid Upwork are, at least for US freelancers, you are wrong. On average, it's quite lucrative.

B) Generally, women are earning much less than men: 48 percent less in the gig economy as a whole. But the good news is that in the freelance writing subcategory, there is only a small gender gap of just under $3 per hour. I'm curious, why do you think this would be? My guess is that prospective clients have fewer gendered assumptions about 'what a writer looks like' than they do 'what a software engineer looks like'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-19/men-make-48-more-than-women-in-the-gig-economy-study-finds

Posted Aug 2, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

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FuzzPunkMuttWriter & Editor | Expert Contributor ⋆•

I actually do have a few thoughts.

First, I don't have much faith in Bloomberg. I would be very, very interested to know their methodology.

Oh, they took findings from another firm. How did that firm do it?

By using a scraping service to guess at someone's gender. I'm not thrilled with the idea of using this method; It doesn't control for anything.

100 hours over 6 months is nothing, and I would be very, very curious to know what those hours actually look like. Is this a case of "people who work a lot more make more, and those people tend to skew male?" or is it actually way worse?

There's a reason that gender studies is an entire field of research, and people spend years and years unpacking data to find a conclusion.

Unfortunately, due to the fact that the dataset gained by ZenBusiness doesn't actually look at that many factors, it's even more difficult to make conclusions.

I do believe there is still a lot of misogyny in the US workforce, and I would never diminish someone's personal experience. I simply think that it's really hard to analyze data that is this vague.

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Phronesis2000OPContent & Copywriter | Expert Contributor ⋆•

Very interesting observations. Great point about the 'scraping' methodology, I think it does raise a few problems. But on the specific points you make:

(1) You're right,it is guessing at gender based on appearance and name. Is this enough to skew the data at a statistical level? No idea.

(2) 100 hours is a small amount. But how is that a bad thing? Doesn't that make the sample size bigger, and isn't that a good thing for making overall generalisations?

(3) I'm not sure how your observations about gender studies as discipline, in itself, calls this study into question. Overall this survey is very damning (48 percent disparity!) and indicative of a major gender gap. So the results would broadly line up with what gender studies academics have found in countless other methodologically sound studies. There is just an interesting difference with freelance writing.

(4) Which pertinent factors do you think were left out of the dataset?

(5) This data would lend support to the idea that there is misogyny in the US workforce, and no one anywhere questioned someone's personal experience. It is simply reporting the overall trend.

But having said all that, I think you are right that there are problems in the methodology:

(1) This only scrapes public profiles. Many profiles are set to private, or the complete earnings information is not released to the public by the freelancer. So the data is skewed

(2) Many writers on Upwork don't charge hourly, and work on fixed price or retainer. I'm not sure which direction this would skew the data in, but it's not representative.

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FuzzPunkMuttWriter & Editor | Expert Contributor ⋆•

Per hours worked, I would assume that someone who works an average amount, say 30*4=120 hours a month, would make a lot more per hour than someone who works one hour a week.

If someone is treating UpWork as a full time job, they probably are in a much better position to negotiate and demand much higher prices. If someone is say, doing a few hours of work between raising kids... They probably can't demand the wages that someone else has.

This is something that comes up A LOT in the gender wage gap issue. In the United States is likely that a man is pressured into being a bread-winner, and will therefore be working, and pushing to work, a lot more. As to how much of an effect that has freelancing, it's difficult to know.

This is where I believe there is an issue with their methods. The difference between working freelance full time (40*3*6=720 hours ish) vs four hours a week ((100/6)/4=4.16) is massive. There is an entire world of experience difference between someone who writes 10 articles a month compared to someone that plucks out one every couple months. And one of those people likely values their time a lot more.

Plus, the study doesn't control for location. It'd be weird to say that all women who write code live in Kentucky but all men who write code live in San Francisco where the cost of living is 100 times higher... But we don't know that.

What all of that leads to is a fairly incomplete dataset. Yes, as you said, it does seem to suggest some correlation between gender and pay.

The sheer volume and number of conclusions made by Bloomberg and the Business whatever do not seem to be supported, though. *we don't even know how many writers vs programmers there were*

We could be comparing the wages of 5998 writers to the wages of 2 programmers. That would radically alter the conclusion of the study, since it would show fairly clearly that there isn't as large of a gap as reported elsewhere.

More than anything, this data doesn't have enough data points to make a meaningful conclusion; If we are going to say that women make less than men (something I am not arguing against) it would be useful to isolate WHY and respond accordingly. Because the set is so vague, and the method does not control for anything, we don't have a why. We simply have a "this happened" and then Bloomberg making a ton of assumptions.

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FuzzPunkMuttWriter & Editor | Expert Contributor ⋆•

All of what I said being said, anecdotally, I have noticed a lot of gatekeeping in the freelance world.

Specifically, I have seen male buddy buddy clubs that form the backbone of large networking rings that, either intentionally or not, seem to exclude women.

I imagine UpWork has largely the same issue; An old man who still thinks of women as secretaries is going to likely hire men to do jobs- who then in turn get the references, and refer other men, who get hired by more old men, etc ad naseum.

Writing may be different since it is traditionally seen as non-gendered. For every Steven King there's a JK Rowling, so to speak. And it may be that simple.

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Phronesis2000OPContent & Copywriter | Expert Contributor ⋆•

Yes, that seems right. I don't think the idea of a freelance writer is as strongly gendered as our ideas of most other professions.

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OnlyPaperListens•

Your example is amusing since it's yet another woman using initials to obfuscate her gender.

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GigMistressModerator•

Why do you assume she's trying to obfuscate her gender when her photo is on the dustjacket?

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FuzzPunkMuttWriter & Editor | Expert Contributor ⋆•

JK is their own bag of worms, it's just an easy example of a female writer who is famous.

Sub in Suzanne Collins, Agatha Christie, Mary Shelly, Harper Lee, or just for fun, Jane Austen, if you prefer.

Make no mistake, I'm not suggesting that the biases don't exist, or that there isnt' any bigotry in publishing. It's simply that in the writing world it's much more common to find celebrated female creators.

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GigMistressModerator•

I believe a big part of the gender gap is simply that women are less inclined to negotiate and/or set rates and draw lines.

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Phronesis2000OPContent & Copywriter | Expert Contributor ⋆•

Do you have a theory why there would be less of a gap in freelance writing? Are more assertive women inclined to be freelance writers?

Or perhaps the relatively piecemeal nature of freelance writing, compared to freelance IT/Software engineering or VA-work (where there is a huge gender gap) encourages a more assertive approach to pricing? E.g., if the average software engineering project is 3 months long, there is one chance every three months to assert your price. If the average freelance writing project is three weeks, one gets schooled in the rough-and-tumble of price negotiation ever few weeks.

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GigMistressModerator•

It's just my personal perception, but I think it may be that the personality type that diverts from the traditional path of getting a steady job and doing what they're told has a greater inclination to take charge of their business. Couple this (in terms of the study) with the fact that freelancers who don't have at least a bit of that have trouble finding work, so many would be filtered out by the 100-hour requirement.

I hadn't considered the other contracting arenas you mention before, but now that you are, I'm thinking that long-term contractors are more like employees in many ways, including the one you mentioned, but also (related), that constantly working with new clients offers a greater range of exposure to higher-paying clients, clients who are willing to negotiate, etc., providing a broader view of what's possible. I'm also wondering now whether women in tech fields are more accustomed to second-class treatment by the time they go out into the freelancing world, whereas writing is more of a traditionally-accepted role for women.

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[deleted]•

[removed]

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anima99•

Freelancers get to dictate their rates, though.

It can mean women tend to price themselves lower than men or men are more aggressive with rates.

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Phronesis2000OPContent & Copywriter | Expert Contributor ⋆•

Who said anywhere that freelancers don't dictate their rates?

Um...yes, women do price themselves lower than men in general. The question is why there is little discrepancy in the case of freelance writing.

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anima99•

Because like I said, freelancers dictate their rates. Can't do that in corporate.

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Phronesis2000OPContent & Copywriter | Expert Contributor ⋆•

Well, yes, everyone here is aware that freelancers generally set their own rates.

It's just that I can't see how that has anything to do with what was posted. How does the fact that freelancers set their own rates explain why there is a gender gap for some freelancers (e.g. software developers) and not for other freelancers (e.g. writers)?

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anima99•

why there is a gender gap for some freelancers (e.g. software developers) and not for other freelancers (e.g. writers)?

Same answer, but let me flesh it out this time.

Women don't charge as high as men. They could, but for some reason, they don't. Maybe it stems from lack of professional experience, they fear not getting hired, poor negotiating skills, or perhaps they're just not confident enough.

The bottom line is, both men and women decide how much they earn per hour and women charge 1/3 of what men usually do.

  • You can also flip it over and say men are too confident in what they bring to the table, but statistically, those who do get in manage to prove it, which can skew the numbers.

Regardless, the conclusion is not that there's a gender gap, but that clients are willing to hire 3x the amount women, on average, charge.

If you were a woman, you can use this study to improve/change your hourly rate moving forward and not use it simply as evidence of gender gap. The former is something you can control, the latter is not within your control.

=========================

Flaws

  • The people behind the study used "Gender API" to determine the gender based on the first name. That can make the study efficient or inaccurate.
  • They didn't consider the number of freelancers who DO charge high, but don't get hired. Not their fault; UpWork won't have this data published ever because it might deter people from charging high.
  • The study only considered displayed rates, not the rates of contracts they were hired for. I can display $500 per hour, but I might only be getting $50/hr contracts.
  • One other part that's overlooked: The study says over 70% of freelancers are women. If we oversimplify that and scale, it can mean women are hired more than men 70% of the time. Why? I don't know, maybe because they don't charge as high as men? Can we say there's a gender gap from this? Of course not. It's all about rate setting.

Regardless, rate setting is a double-edged sword. It can land you a good contract or you might not earn anything for a month.

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anima99•

Sorry, I couldn't wait.

There's a flaw in your summary.

Here's your sentence:

Generally, women are earning much less than men: 48 percent less in the gig economy as a whole.

This is what the study says:

Freelance jobs performed by men had an average hourly rate of $68.58, meaning they charge 48% higher than women ($46.30 per hour) in an equivalent role.

On UpWork (and freelancing as a whole), just because you charge $100/hr doesn't mean you earn $100/hr.

This guy charges $250, but has contracts at half that.

Your conclusion is wrong, to begin with, which means any argument stemming from this study is null.

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Phronesis2000OPContent & Copywriter | Expert Contributor ⋆•

Um, isn't that exactly what you said in your comment above? That I was wrong because it looked at what people put on their profile, rather than their actual earnings.

No, need to apologise, just confused why you have said the exact same thing on a separate comment.

Your conclusion is wrong, to begin with, which means any argument stemming from this study is null.

Lol, how does that work? I made some statements which you have shown to be false. I asked for others thoughts. You have made some interesting observations.

But now "any argument stemming from this study is null"? Not how it works. I could be the most idiotic, incompetent, bewildered numpty in the world. But the study shows what it shows and arguments about what it shows stand and fall on their merits, not specific claims that a random like me has made.

And in fact, you yourself have made some interesting arguments, stemming from the study.

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anima99•

You're right.

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