For everyone complaining/wondering about the Refraction animation showing to enemies
dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=45678&page...
dev.dota2.comPosted Jul 13, 2012, 12:18 AM UTC
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dev.dota2.comI'm probably the minority, but I don't like the idea of making any abilities or particle effects "subtle" especially for balancing purposes. I just think everything should be easily read and accessible.
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Well it's kind of in the same vein as Illusions. Obvious graphics for allies and subtle things for enemies, such as the illusions doing/taking different amounts of damage. I think it makes for some cool one-sided information, which is always nice and dramatic.
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If everything is easily read and accessible, you limit yourself as a developer in terms of what skill you CAN make. It's the trap LoL had set for itself and fallen into.
With what you said, you could never have skills like AA's ultimate, because new players wouldn't understand that they will shatter if they fall under a % of hp.
However, I don't think new Blur is that bad of a nerf. Valve will never settle with a shadow on the ground. Lanaya's Refraction could be tweaked to show the shield for an instant if it blocks something.
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He was talking about making game visuals clear and easy to see. It has nothing to do with making game mechanics too simple like in LoL.
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How visually clear and easy to see should it be, though? When Blademail or Nyx Assassin's spiked carapace activates, should the hero be flashing red and putting up warning text like "Do not attack! Damage reflect!" when an enemy mouses over them?
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wrong.
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In WC3 DotA it was the same way, so they are changing it to how it was supposed to be. It's not about balance.
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it's comparable to illusions, if people could tell which illusion is real they wouldn't care. if you send an illusion to attack an enemy he might waste some mana and cd time to nuke him. same with sending a TA with refraction active at an enemy. the PA blur, however is just stupid. I'm sure that I'm siding with the few, but I'm glad that valve decided not to implent the transparency from WC3 dota because having your hero transparent affected gameplay dramatically for people who either forgot to keep an eye out for PA, had a terrrible computer so they turned off shadows (for fucking WC3), or turned health bars off (trust me i knew ppl who didn't like health bars). finding PA in the midst of a fight isn't as hard as ppl say.
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I came here to post the same thing. Full disclosure, I never played dota 1, but for me the idea that little subtle (or nonexistant) effects are what I'm supposed to be picking up on is unappealing.
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But now that you know about it, you can look for it. It's not like every hero has it --- its just TA, and you can reasonably expect it.
Arguing in favor of Burden of Knowledge is just arguing for laziness. Dota is the last game you want to play passively.
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Honestly I agree with you, it seems like clumsy game design to me
-4
Do you have an argument supporting that claim?
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Go play LoL? Countless abilities would be nerfed/useless if what you're suggesting was implemented.
Shallow grave, sunstrike, assassinate, track, infest, all illusions. There are dozens hundreds of mechanics in dota which reward observant and intuitive players. Not players who can notice a giant fuckoff red X over their head.
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I'm glad. If they didn't fix it, she would be nowhere near as powerful, or annoying.
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That refraction is so annoying. Played as Lina and, out of 4 ults, none of them did any damage to TA.
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That is a huge part about Lanaya. She has 3 ways to make spells useless, 1. She can use meld to dodge nukes and stuns. 2. She can use Refraction to ignore all damage done to her. 3. She can use blink to make stuns such as magic missile miss. To be an effective TA you have to be able to play mind games, and make the opponent waste their spells.
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They have screwed this up slightly, now it has no buff icons for enemies (the change they made in the test client for update 2) and also no graphic (except a brief one when you are hit with it up).
As someone who was worried about the graphic being there nerfing TA this is just far too strong, and they need to at least add the buff indicator back.
Right now it is a complete gamble as to wether or not you can nuke TA, the only way of knowing for sure is getting an auto-attack off first, and even then she could potentially re-apply the refraction buff in that time anyway.
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But isn't that how it was in dota1, aside from the allies of TA being able to see the buff stacks?
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In DotA 1 enemies could see the buff icon in your buffs if they clicked on you. This meant that if they spent the time to select you and check they could see if refraction was still up. (though please if I am completely wrong on this someone correct me, but this is certainly what I remember from DotA 1)
As it is now they have no real way of knowing, hell refraction in DotA2 right now doesn't even have an effect when you first cast it (other than a small movement of her hands).
I was against the graphic being visible to enemies, but I would prefer it to this, because at the moment it is basically just a gamble for the enemies, which isn't fun gameplay.
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They will fix it. Chill.
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God forbid Dota2 is a sequel. I want them to make changes from the original, as long as it isnt anything too drastic. It seems to me some people get a hard-on being a pubstomp, so they want to make sure they keep their pubstomp power. It's retarded, grow up, learn a proper hero
-7
This change makes a huge difference in competitive play. Before, if she blinked in and started whaling on you, you had no idea if you could fight back/nuke her because you had to click her to check or waste time hitting her once. It's not just a matter of pubstomp or not.
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It's retarded, grow up, learn a proper hero
Jimmies Level: Rustled Crowe
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Do you hear that? It's lol calling for you.
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Note that you can still see the Refract damage buff effect on her hands from an enemy perspective, but it's vastly more subtle than the shield effect was (which only shows up when she is hit). I might not have even noticed it but I had two standing next to each other.
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yeah, I just played against it, you can still see it active when she takes damage, which makes heroes like veno really useful.
The only issue is that if she blinks on you, you don't knwo if she casted it or not, but 99% of the time she has so it's not much of an issue, you just get out of there asap.
--never played dota1, didn't read her abilities more than I knew she could go invis and i knew she had and attack buff and she could lay traps. It's still pretty intuitive and imo, easy to distinguish and I think this is true even when I played LoL, after the game I look up what that hero specifically does and now i understand it more.
this isn't obtrusive design, this is typical "OOOOOH, she has that spell still"
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Just one question, will the blink mechanic still be available? I mean no dmg so blink can still go off? That would be cool :3
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[deleted]
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It will be fixed in the main client - Icefrog
A quote from the dev forums about the refraction buff showing to enemies.
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All Hail the frog! D:
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Thanks for pointing that out. Certainly helps with the confusion
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so what's the deal? they want it to be more subtle b/c if someone sees it, theyll use auto attacks instead of abilities or something?
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Yeah, if it's completely obvious every Lina, Tinker or Zeus will know to wait for the effect to disappear before casting their spells. This way they can still know, but they have to be consciously looking for it.
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This. OWNS
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Welp, that's disappointing.
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[deleted]
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UNGH CASUAL SCUM UNGH
DON'T TOUCH ME YOU FILTHY CASUAL
-7
If you think you're mad now wait till you land a crit against Lanaya.
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Or a Laguna Blade.
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Now if they'd just change Blur. It's not like PA is overly strong as is.
Not gonna be as easy. You need the workshop items to show on a hero for people to be interested in trading/buying them.
I don't think that's the real issue here. I can't fathom that Valve, much less Icefrog, would make a fairly serious change to a hero solely on the basis of item sales. Not to say that the blur change isn't an intentional, balance-driven nerf.
By that logic, Valve wouldn't release any items for Riki.
The player can still see Riki. If you make PA invisible when you max out blur, nobody can see her.
[deleted]
No, what he's saying is that fir some reason, icefrog and valve thought that ability would unbalance the game, so they scrapped it.
But we can still see the hp bars on top of the head. It's not really an issue for me.
Mortred's blur is only 80% tranaparency in Dota 1 ever since the blur remake (in the same version where they introduced the new minimap dots and smoke of deceit). She in=s not only a shadow anymore.
The reality? I have it so that player names appear over everyone's head at the same time. Shablam. There is literally no reason for Mortred to be invisible anymore as this one setting completely nullifies any difficulty in seeing her at all.
Now, if they want to remove the name over her head as well, sure.
Say that to Wisp, is what I want to say... but PA already has some legit items I'm sure people would love to show off.
EASY: They'll just make invisible skin for her.